Billy, I am fortunate enough to have Dr T in my back yard so to speak and he was the first Dr that I had seen post work doctors. He was amazed the living hell that they put me through and on my first meeting with him (3 1/2 hour appointment) he ruled TOS and imediately took me out of work and told me any type of resistive exercise would result in futher decompensation. Unfortunately, my TOS has progressed into RSD, but I think that was just lying under the surface waiting to rear it's ugly head!
He does promote light water therapy and in my area there is a rehab pool where the water is kept at a constant 91 F, which during the winter on those days of minus 20 F feels wonderful !!! Johanna, Alison, Jo ... among others who may chime in have been through the war for a while now and surely will pass along tips in survival in living with the beast TOS as far as ROM Billy sorry to say that is one thing we all learn to adapt and live with and if you need to talk or vent this is a good place to do so as we understand where you are coming from... it is real, regardless what others may think or say there are a lot of creul people in this world even among the medical ***PROFESSIONALS*** !!!!

MY BEST !!!! Mark~n~Goober

sometimes you need to totally rest for awhile - but still do some ROM and very gentle stretches and be aware of shoulder/neck postures.
I really feel that finding Sharon Butlers TOS program and even just doing the first 4 things has been a great help for me. I still do those when I feel I need to loosen up.

Then as symptoms ease {hopefully they will} don't be afraid to explore with gentle movement and motions as noname suggests. Exploring and learning what your own body can do is the key.

I had a similar experience with my RSI therapy - got to a point were the forearm pain was constantly @ 2 - PT hooked up a biofeedback unit and my forearm muscles were not fully relaxing. PT suggested some exercises with 1 lb weights for my wrists/arms. slowly to lifting up and lowering and then let my wrist/hand hang over the edge of a table and the weight would help to stretch. It was more sore the next day but as I carefully did more over the next days the deep achy arm pain went away.:)
But another sx showed up - more of a just under the skin pain - but now I know this is from my version of TOS - the musculocutaneous nerve gets compressed or impinged.

Each of us is so different as to our injury/condition that what helps for one may or may not help someone else.

That's why I think finding a knowledgeable, well rounded and advanced PT, Chiro, body worker, or somebody etc -to help you get a good start on this self exploration is so important.
Hopefully too, they can use some modalities {heat, ultrasound, E stim, low level laser, massage} to help to resolve some of the pain, before getting into too much active uses. so much will depend on communication and how your body responds.

Oh and there are some really interesting and helpful posture, massage, chiropractic- all kinds of therapies you can get a idea about them on the YouTube or Google videos - it is great for an educational tool to see how the good or bad or if it might be something you can do at home that is easy for you.

billy- how did you acquire TOS? from an injury /accident or repetitive type work??

Don't Try This @ Home, Kidz
 

sorry, noname, but i have to respectfully tell you, i think it is a little bit irresponsible to encourage people with neurovascular injuries and/or entrapment disorders to try to "push through the pain" using yoga poses such as the one you describe. and to do so without the input of a trained PT, no less, beforehand? sheer madness, i say!

in fact, we have at least one forum member whose very injury was caused if not severely exacerbated by doing this very type of thing. now, perhaps you are young enough or your TOS mild enough that you can still get away with doing things of this nature. but i certainly wouldn't advise anyone else to try it...

that is just asking for trouble, in my humble opinion. TOS is a very harsh taskmaster. it is nothing to fool around with and a confounding thing, to say the least. what feels like muscle pain is really nerve pain, and vice versa. the nervous system is in a constant state of hyperexcitement due to injury to and/or ongoing compression of the BP, and the involved musculature is in a constant state of spasm in a futile attempt to protect the affected nerves and blood vessels, and 'round and 'round she goes, where she stops, nobody knows...

ayenga yoga taught one-on-one by a certified instructor trained to work with people with injuries is one of the few forms of yoga i can tolerate, personally. and i cannot even do that right now. yoga simply has too many arm movements for me and for many other TOS'ers that i know. so does t'ai chi... and i LOVED doing t'ai chi when i could manage it!

so i think it's great that you have gotten your TOS under control, or that your case is not that advanced, or whatever the case may be for you personally. i'm just a bit nervous about putting specific movements up on a board like this one that someone else may unwittingly then try for themselves, with potentially disastrous results if not closely supervised by a trained and caring professional.

i know that's not your intention, but you see my point, i'm sure (i noticed you say you're in the minority view; perhaps that is what you meant by that remark?). i am all for PT, bodywork and other modalities, home programs including yoga, don't get me wrong! just easy does it. we don't want anyone to reinjure themselves. and with the TOS personality, it's just too easy to do!!!!

so even though you don't expressly say everyone should try to do this certain yoga move, it worked for me - there is a danger that someone might do exactly that. that is my point. nothing more, nothing less. i hope you won't take offense at what i'm saying here. i just don't want anyone getting hurt (more hurt than they already ARE, i mean).

and oh, just as an aside to bill: FYI - the nerves that comprise the BP (C-5, C-6, C-7, + C-8 & T-1) branch out to become the 3 main ones in the arm that you mention, median, radial and ulnar. so these are not SEPARATE dx's or issues for you, my friend. it all falls all under the TOS umbrella, i'm afraid!:rain: you may have some double- or triple-crush issues going on, but i'll bet you even $ the original injury was in the BP. that's where the trouble began, and that is what set you up for the nerves to become vulnerable elsewhere as they travel down that big strong arm of yours...:wink:

but fear not! now that you have the right dx and the good doc fried, help is on the way. hey, have you heard of a PT named suparna over in allentown? i've heard she is running one hell of a program over there... check it out, bill! googlebreath! i want to go stay there for 8 weeks but i need shelley to take a roadtrip with me and she's all talk and no action, apparently...:D

bye, kidz. and no offense, noname. i wish you had a name and i always enjoy reading your posts, because we need different viewpoints to keep this forum alive and the info flowing!

alison

got tos from
 

repetitive motion. Diagnosed as cts, had three unsuccessful cts surgeries making it worse each time before finding good doc. Mine is advanced and cannot push it or the pain is unbearable. I cannot even write without terrible pain in elbow and back of hand. I tried today: OUCH! right now.

Thanks everybody for the information. Thanks a bunch, Alison

Bill

where in my post did I "encourage" or advocate that others do what I did? Please do NOT put words into my posts that are not there. Too often people on this board right away want to flame me for advocating something that is NOT there and was NOT ADVOCATED or encouraged. This life is all a big experiment and one needs to LISTEN to their own bodies for cues and treatment. That's all I do. That's all I represented. For whatever VALUE MY experience might be worth, someone else could benefit. At the same time someone else might not benefit. Shame on you for putting words in my post that are not there. I merely offered MY experience and as Jo said...EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT.

What I will advocate and encourage is that members LISTEN to their OWN BODIES for signs, signals etc. The patient is the best source for what treatment may or may not work. No doctor, PT, Chiro, Massage Therapist is INSIDE YOUR BODY. Only you are and know what is actually going on. The professionals can guide you and suggest what may be happening.



I didn't. I offered MY experience, MY efforsts, MY results. G-d forbid I say X drug helped me...then no one posts that "hey you shouldn't be advocating X drug" no, the posts then become..."really, where can I get X drug." That's the problem IMHO. People are too quick to pass judgment, assume and then take medications rather than DEAL with the cause. Again, I'm NOT passing judgment...I'm merely relaying what I perceive...you can disagree all you want...and I'm not saying YOU are part of a class of members that do not deal with the situation...but I'm sure you will feel like I'm accusing you...I"M NOT! Look at my original post...I relayed MY EXPERIENCE. To the extent that it might help someone, great...if not...oh well. But we are ALL looking for ideas that might help us. I did NOT advocate this approach. I did not recommend others do DO what I did. It is ALL up to the members who LISTEN to their own bodies to determine if something posted MIGHT work for THEM.

TOS IS a very touch task mster. It is nothing to sneeze at. I have worked VERY HARD to find relief for ME. Never advocated that what works for me would work for someone else. IT MIGHT THOUGH. It is an experiment...and I AM willing to experiment to a certain extent with MY body to get relief. So far I'm improving WITHOUT DRUGS. (and I hear a large segment already assuming that I must not have TOS or as bad as they do...to those...don't judge me...I'm not judging you!). I'm not saying relief can be obtained without drugs...I'm saying FOR ME I will do whatever I can to avoid drugs, surgery etc. So far it has helped. My doctor is VERY PLEASED with my progress and improvement. He wants me to talk with some of his other TOS patients. He agrees that many (not all) do give up way too soon and resort to drugs and surgery way too soon. Again, this is NOT a specific accusation to any particular person or to you...it is just my relaying what I perceive and what my doctor has also expressed as HIS perception. Yoga has many elements to it that are very therapeutic for many ailments. Not every Yoga pose is therapeutic FOR ME. There are a few I could do, but not without aggravating tis condition. Thus FOR ME, I do not do every Yoga pose. There are many though that have helped me. Those I incorporate into my mini therapeutic recovery sessions. I attribute my progress to those as well as other exercises and stretches I have found and been given.

You need to pay attention more to what I post if you are going to accuse me of things. I mention Yoga...I didn't say everything about Yoga is therapeutic. I mentioned ONE or TWO poses that HELPED ME. There are a few that I should not do and don't. Eagle for one because it will compress the BP. I don't do Eagle for that reason. I will do chest openers because FOR ME they help. There is some discomfort but I know FOR ME that that discomfort is part of the healing/work I need to do. It HELPS me. It has HELPED me.

What I will say is that as scared as I was to "push through my pain" I'm glad I did. Do I advocate it to others? No! Is it something someone SHOULD consider? Perhaps...but only if they are LISTENING to their bodies and are willing to take whatever risk is associated. It may be no risk, then again it may be a big risk. By all means consult a PT, doctor before taking such a risk. I didn't because I trusted that I am a good body listener. I will certainly advise my doctor and PT what I'm doing to get their input. But the body tells me that it IS helping ME. Not sure but sometimes there is GOOD PAIN that one must push through to get relief. The trouble is knowing the difference. Some people view ANY PAIN as bad. That attitude does not work FOR ME.

See now you get a bit judgmental and "assume" that because I'm getting better or some relief, my TOS might not be as advanced. I let that go over my head because it doesn't fit for me. This is not a matter of who's TOS is worse and "wo is me" This is a matter of exchanging ideas and treatments. What works for one person may not work for another...but it may work for some others. Should I keep it to myself? How is that helpful? Lets keep all successful treatments to ourselves so that no one else has the possibility of recovery. Nope. Not me. Read my post again. I didn't advocate a thing. I didn't encourage a thing. I relayed MY EXPERIENCE ONLY. FWIW


No offense taken BTW. But I do want to be clear because invariably I will get some PMs that I'm being too judgmental and not empathetic etc.

I should probably add a disclaimer to my posts: WARNING the following worked for me...it may not work for you....if you try what I did you do so at your own risk. I'm not a trained PT, Doctor or health professional. I make no representations good, bad or indifferent.

Billy, means by no means was I telling you what to do... it was what the doctor told me to do. I am sure you will find out what you can do I always found it best to listen to my body and not to over do. I may have missed it, but what part of the country are you from? I noticed Alison had written about a PT listed in Allentown is that Pa ??? Oh well like you typing does take it's toll and I am reaching my limit !!!

Mark~n~Goober