First off hello and if anyone replies Thankyou. Need some opinions on what to do or if anyone can help with suggestions or point me in another direction.

So, I'm 21 have been bodybuilding since I was 17 and at my peak started getting elbow pain. (1 year ago). Got told it was ulnar neuritis so I took some time off lightened the load and stopped leaning on my elbows. Trained again till December last year and it came back and my arms/shoulders were getting heavy training. Specially overhead work.

I'd already read about TOS and suspected it was that. Stopped the weightlifting and went and had a Doppler ultrasound with arm abduction from 0-180 degrees. That confirmed it both arms at 180degrees my subclavian artery(and I think vein) were completely cut off. They suggested surgery but my luck I started at the police academy in 4 weeks. I told them I'd try physiotherapy and get back too them.

i have no cervacil ribs either. I've done everything I can to reverse it but can't crack it. I've done posterior strengthening of delts/back, sit up straight ALL the time, had first rib adjustments, spent countless hours stretching all the involved muscles, $$1000s of dollars on physios/chiros, Pilates/yoga. I've even written my own home program of stretching/release and deep breathing exercises to do every night I get home from work.

Dilemma is - I can't rides sports bikes anymore, I can't hit the gym anymore and I've lost all my strength. I'm 3 months into a 12 month course at the police academy with a lot of PT and I'm really struggling and can't afford to be struggling with the workload. I only get 3 hours free a night and spend most of it doing my exercises when I Gould be studying or training. It's a the point where after a PT session I can't move my arms over my head. They are unawares as are my course mates. I also look like a very fit guy ( like j said X-bodybuilder) so everyone's always surprised when I'm not improving or in the gym.


I'm giving it 1 more month of PT and my own stuff then deciding whether to have surgery. Only other alwayerntive is a DR STOXEN in the US. Can anyone elaborate on him or has anyone seen him? I'm willing to fly over and see him if it means dodging surgery, I've spoken to him quite a bit a few months back.

Anyways, my shoulders and back muscles are getting super tight now too so not sure if something else is at play.

Being a police officer is my dream job and I don't want to stuff it up but I need to tell someone about it due to the arterial/nerve/vein involvement and I could hurt myself. (Burpees/push-ups/pull-ups etc)

Let me know what you guys think because time is something I'm running out of unfortunately. Cheers

Australia. Also if anyone else is in AUS and knows someone that could help yell out! Thankyou!!

Are your muscles in the neck/shoulders/chest still bulked up?
(crowds the nerves/blood flow in the crucial junction)

It is very hard to see long term improvements when still doing aggravating work/activities.. IMO..

There are past posts on Dr Stoxen I believe , the name sound familiar. You can use the search to find those, might be 5 yrs ago..

If you do look into surgery more deeply , seek out the best surgeons you can find..and get a second opinions..

But a police officer career may not be a good fit in the long term view of things, unless you can move into the detective or management side of things..

Even if you have a successful surgery - Why risk it becoming a chronic life long issue..
If VTOS only ,usually a better/faster recovery , but if mostly or some NTOS is involved, nerves stay angry a long time..

Check out the useful sticky threads for more info ..

Thanks for the reply.

I've lost about 10kg and no change unfortunately. It is mainly arterial related but nerves are involved aswell but I only get light tingling numbness in aggravating positions.

I know it's tough I have looked at dr stoxen a threads on here but couldn't find too much. Surgery is an option for me and I have considered the risk but at the moment I'm looking at 9 months of weekly PT and then at least 18 months of being operational on the road before I could switch positions.

I want to keep the job though and I'm at the point is rather risk it with surgery. I've read if you do Pt with the arteries rubbing you can get in trouble.

If I told my instructors they would probably freak and wouldn't let me do anything as they are very tight on injuries so I'm on the fence.

I'm still trying physiotherapy and I have a new Physio at the moment who is very good but will wait and see. I'm a fit guy still and belive if surgery went well I could recover quickly, but then again I'm in Australia and I was the first person in my area to get tested as positive for ATOS

Thanks again will look over the forums on the weekend

Hey dude. I played linebacker in highschool and wanted to play in college but I developed TOS at 18. What I'm saying is that I actually understand what it's like to be a young guy and not be able to be strong like you want to be. I'm 21 now and wish so bad that a doc would offer me surgery so I could feel better. I dunno, if I were you I would have booked surgery right away. Sometimes it doesn't work and that sucks, but its certainly better than waiting to feel better while your life goes by.

If you consider surgery a few ideas -

Learn as much as you can - surgeons, techniques, risks, post op / recovery..

Be sure to get second opinions & check out surgeons before hand to get the most highly skilled/knowledgeable you can find..

Post op is a very important time also.. avoid accidents, falls & fast moves/grabs and such.

Hey man! I know it sucks I don't have it as bad as other people but feel like I've tried almost everything to get rid of it. Bodybuilding and sports bikes used to be my life and now I just have nothing to look forward to or release stress anymore. Everyone just tells me to toughen up but it's hard. No one has ever even heard about it and like I said I was the first person the people that scanned me have ever seen come back positive with ATOS. They were amazed. I'm mentally pretty tough but it's wearing me down slowly. How come you cannot have surgery in Canada? Is it a money issue?

They offered some good surgeons who they said are experienced in the matter. I have read most pages on here and researched every type of surgery in the last 6 months. I just don't want to lose my job it's all I've ever wanted to be a cop. I can cope but I feel like training hard is going to make it worse and if they find out they might kick me out so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!

And jomar, thanks for your input if I go ahead with surgery I will do my homework and keep you guys updated.

Also, does anyone know how quick recovery would be? That is also a dilemma for me as I've heard some people recover very quick and some people it takes months/years.

In Canada it is hard to find a surgeon because the operation is not always successful and carries some risks. Being that I am "just a kid" most doctors find that these risks outweigh the pain I currently experience. Its just the way it goes.

and recovery is weird, you have nervous and arterial right? Probably not bad. Like 4-6 months best case and a year worst case scenario. I think the people with 100% nTOS have the worst time recovering.

Ahh really that sucks mate could you travel to the US?

Yeah I've got mainly arterial and minor nerve involvement. I get tingliness in aggravating positions but it mainly the heaviness in my arms.

I'm thinking of tuffing it out for the next 9 months until graduation, still on the fence about what to do. I'm scared if I do PT I'll damage the artery or something haha

Ahh and though I'd mention, I get real sick for about a week every 6 months or so and its like glandular fever. My lymph nodes in my neck are very swollen and noticeable of you look close and tend to stay swollen now 24/7. My right lymph node is swollen, and my right scalenes are swollen and puffy. Could it have something to do with it?

I'm getting more blood tests done this weekend incase there's a undermining factor, as I have suspicion the lymph nodes could be swollen and cruising my scalenes to get tight.

Random theory lol. Has anyone had anything similiar?

BigKizza - are you from Aus mate? You have some of the best PTs in the world there. Lyn Watson is a shoulder expert who has published on TOS.
If you have drooping shoulders then she is your best bet - she apparently specializes in fixing things with Trap activation.

I am from India & heck, I was even saving up to visit Aus (its very expensive for us dudes thanks to exchange rate differences) but couldn't find a PT willing to work with me on a short term basis. I guess they prefer people right next to them. Havent' contacted Lyn but was looking at other PTs.

Here is Lyns website, wish you the best of luck. Since your issues didn't come from trauma, I suspect they will be (perhaps) more straightforward to resolve.
Lyn Watson Shoulder Physio