Hi my friends here.

I had a sudden trauma through my upper back last Tuesday at 5:30am that I felt like I was having a heart attack that I had to call 911 cause I could not move the pain was so crippling and over whelming and I could not breath. The ambulance came and picked me up and took me to the Hospital they took blood tests and found my Pancreas was inflamed and that they may have been the cause. Then they had a GI doctor come in and run a test and low and behold my stomach lining was bleeding it was like gee what in the heck is all this going on with me! Then the doctor thought I am going to do an MRI test on her and see just by chance if her T4 is out in her spine it is hardly likely it would be, but we will do it that anyway. Well low and behold my T 4 was out and he said it was protruding my lung. I was like what in the world! What does that mean? He said, if I rested for a few weeks it should stay in place and heal.I had never ever heard of that before in my life nor do I ever want to experience again. just got out of the Hospital last night.

I could not make much sense out of this doctor and I asked him a million questions I felt I was not getting them answered.

Can you please help me.I felt like the pain went through my back and into my chest and stomach and I could not breath and it was the worst pain I ever experienced! I never want to experience it ever again.

Can someone Please explain to me what is a T4 I am looking some of it up and can it really heal itself? What are the chanced this will ever happen again? Also how can it protrude in the lung? Should I see a specialist on this? I feel like I am shoot in the back everyday and it goes through my chest. The doctor did the test by chance cause he said this happens to one in a million.

I just can not believe this is happening.

Thanks for any help you can give.
Jeanie

Pretty scary

When the doc says "its out," I'm not sure what he means. Can you get a copy of your report and type the "IMPRESSION" part in so we can look at it, and maybe the T4 info.

T4 is your thoracic vertebra at the 4th level. That's hard tissue. Disc are soft tissue. So the bony part of your spine has a definite problem. If the doc wasn't too alarmed, (although it was an emergency situation at the time you arrived) then it should be okay. Meaning, the bone problem should heal on its own, maybe. It did not puncture your lung. That's a good thing. It sounds like it was either suppressing the nerves that go to your pulmonary function or maybe, just guessing here, blocking your bronchial tube. I thought the nerve roots for breathing were in the cervcial spine area. It could be in thoracic area too.

My first thought would be an orthopedist, for bone issues.

Maybe a pulmonologist for lung.

don't know if this has much info, but it does have a lot of breathing info.

http://books.google.com/books?id=j-g...snum=2#PPT1,M1

I'm so sorry to hear you've had all this happen! I think I'd check with an ortho doctor if possible and definitely follow up on the stomach & pancreas issues....those are important too!!!!

T 4 syndrome ??
it has been mentioned in the past , not sure if that is exactly what you have but here is info on it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7706958
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/h/high...e/symptoms.htm
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...acic-spine.htm

I am thinking that this is what I am dealing with and have been since I fell many times and ended up with TOS and other issues.

I am now in PT again and Paul sat across from me Friday after checking me out and working on me just a little and he said that it was my thoracic area that is giving me problems.

Mine has not went away. He's hoping that he can help me calm it down and get me back to somewhat normal but he is thinking even after he gets done with me that I might go back to the same way.

I couldn't get any Dr. to addess this. I read on a site that they don't address this like they should.

I am going to see my Ortho soon and I know there will be test on me now that I got the VNS out of me and maybe they can figure out what is going on.

I have breathing problems, nausea, pain all of the time. I can't take walks because I have trouble getting back home. It's worse when I am on my feet.

I was just asking Jo*Mar about my thoracic spine and she mentioned the t4 syndrome. After reading it sounds about right.

I have been frustrated for years because my Drs. have not figured that I had more going on with my thoracic area. Now I know due to my Physical Therapist. Thank God for all smart people.

Ada

Dream believer,

I love your name. I am glad you are finally getting a grip on what has been going on. I feel for you as I live daily with this. My collar bone hurts breathing is difficult as well and, not to mention arms hands. I deal with vertigo and my tummy is not good as well.

I hope that this goes away for all of us who suffer there is no life in the
suffering.


I am suppose to go to Russia for three months next month and now I am not sure do to the attack I had last week. We will see.

Take care
Jeanie

Hi Jeanie,
I think you have been through a hellish situation!!!
As explained the T4 is a vertebrae in your spine. All your nerves come from the base of your brain and through your spinal cord down your body and each vertebrae has a root of the nerves that comes through it and that root innervates (supplies nerve function) to the part of the body that it continues on to from each line in the nerve...I am gonna put some links here so you can follow a bit better.....I am a visual learner so hope it helps u as well....
lets start with the spine......
basic spinal anatomy......your spine is divided up into 4 distinct areas
1. cervical (neck) 2.thoracic (just below neck to middle of your back)
3. Lumbar (middle of the back to pelvis) 4. Sacrum which is basically your pelvis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Il...ral_column.jpg
there is great info on that site as well if you go to the rest of the vertebrae

now as for nerve innervation....here goes more pictures is best way to describe rather than me type and kill my arm and waste good space here...LOL
http://www.emory.edu/ANATOMY/AnatomyManual/back.html
great site for info but for now look at figure 14 at the bottom of the page this will show you how the nerves come out of the spinal column that protects them and goes out from there to the muscles and other areas of the body.....next site....
http://www.spineuniverse.com/display...ticle1275.html
this site explains how the nerves come out of the spine and go to smaller nerve branches.....it is complicated but keep it simple and stay with me here......
http://www.orthogate.org/patient-edu...erniation.html
this site shows how a nerve can be compressed by a disc that has been either compressed or ruptured due to an injury ie:car accident or injury.
There is other good information on that site.

okay so we have come a long way...more to go. after the nerve comes out of the spinal cord it will innervate areas and take info to and from areas that it goes to in the body...info in to brain and info out from brain.....
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-nerve-innervation.htm
(good other links there too)

which leads me to dermatomes.....now this is where most tos patients find help in describing which level of pain their compression may be coming from....some not but it really helps to explain the package we live in!
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-dermatome.htm
now that you know what it is here have a look at a picture of it.....
http://www.backpain-guide.com/Chapte...iculopathy.jpg
and another just so you get it....
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...a%3DN%26um%3D1
and another
http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~bluk/A...dermatomes.bmp
okay you are likely sick of that by now and overwhelmed!

so where do we go now that you have a little anatomy in your pocket....

Lets see how we can understand a bit more about what happened to you......

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/victoria/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]so they said that T4 was out. Now that you know what it is if your T4 is out then it is likely that the disc may be out of place or the spinal process may be out of alignment. Because I don't know what brought this on or what you were doing at the time or what you have going on medically it is difficult for me to answer that question. I also don't know what medications you are on this may be key to why your stomach was having issues. If you are on any non steroidal anti inflammatory...like ibuprofen(aleve or advil) or aspirin or anything that may be irritating your stomach that may be what was causing that and not the T4 issue

Now I really don't understand when you say you had a trauma through your back.....what happened....was it as you described or did something you did bring on this pain ie were you in a car accident and this happened?? I can't really help without that kind of info.

As to your question about the T4 going into your lung....I'd have to know if the doctor meant the bone or the disc???? so mystery to me. He may have meant that your spine was out of alignment and the T4 vertebrae was moved and was closer to your lung. I think you may have heard differnent things from different people and are trying to piece together what it is you actually heard while you were enduring hell in the ER!!! It is not a great place for education. Doctors there patch u up and say go and see a........which ever doctor they feel you should see. Follow up is usually necessary in a case like this even at the very least to your PCP to get a referral to another doctor or to someone else who can help you.

The breathing will for sure be due to the T4 issue and it could also be due to the pain. Anxiety could also make your breathing this way. So hard for me to know without a full history on you or a report you gave to the doctor.

As for the doctors information to you about waiting I think I'd seek a second opinion on that one! I don't know what caused the injury to happen so if it is an ongoing thing or due to a trauma that just occurred you should see a bone specialist...or an orthopedic doctor...as they are known. I believe you have already been suggested that you see one ! GREAT idea
perhaps more is going on there and you need more investigations. The ER is great for a bandaid fix but not for a full diagnosis history and lets see how we can get you BETTER!!! ER is only that for patching up emergencies! Now don't get me wrong you were having an Emergency!!! I'd have called too. I just don't know what lead up to this event and that for me as a nurse is kinda important info to help you work out what is going on!

I do hope some of what I have done here is of help to you and given you a better understanding of how the spine works and the nerves and how they supply our body with much needed information.....it's all about the brain and the nerves!!! without them we are NOTHING LOL

Also not sure what you mean when you say this can happen to one in a million....to what are you referring????

Now I do have to ask.....do you see a chioprachter????only asking as sometimes if they don't know what they are doing and make an adjustment the wrong way things can hit the fan so to speak.....

take care and hope things are getting better for you.
gentle hugs,
Victoria

Great work here, Victoria

We should keep this handy for future replies. It's really good.

I have vertigo 3 different times when I started out with the TOS. A Dr. in Denver manipulated my head to get it to go away.

The next two times, my PCP did.

I laid across the bed with my head hanging off and he turned my head gently to the right, then to the left. Then I laid on my stomach and he did the same way. He showed my hubby how to do it. My PCP makes house calls so that was good because I couldn't have gotten there.

It was basically the same thing the Dr. in Denver did for me.

You might try that to get rid of the vertigo.

I picked Dreambeliever because even with all I have been through, I guess I still believe in dreams.

Hope you start feeling better soon.

Ada

Victoria,

WOW! Thanks, you are a big help! What a blessing you are to give me these links with info.

A short History. I have had major back and neck pain do to an accident I had in 1992 and then several years after that,the Doctors told me they did not want to touch me with surgery cause I was to young. I had all other kinds of treatment but nothing worked, so I lived with the pain for many years. I went to Africa in 2006 through 2007. While in Africa the pain was so horrific through my whole entire body. I came home from Africa,and was hit with five surgeries in a fourteen month period. I had three neck surgeries total one before I went to Africa and two when returning home from Africa. I had one foot surgery, and two back surgeries.I was hit and had no idea I would be going through all of those surgeries at once!

Now after the neck surgeries, I went back to the surgeon because I was hurting severely in my neck, arms, and shoulders, so my surgeon did an MRI it turned out above the four discs that were fused, was yet another disc that bulged. I still had major burning down my arms, and all around my shoulders, and in my hands. I would have headaches all the time and my collar bone hurt so bad I can barely move my arms do to pain. The surgeon realized I had TOS. So have been getting shots for that now and it helps only for a short period of time.

Which leads to the incident that landed me in the Hospital last Tuesday. I woke up at 5:30 AM with massive back pain that radiated through my chest and I felt like someone was sitting on my chest, I could not move because the pain was horrific. I thought I was having a massive heart attack. I did nothing to cause this I have been taking it easy every since the surgeries cause I am still in allot of pain. This attack came out of no where and I could not understand what in the heck was happening to me.I so never want to experience that again!

The doctor in the ER said, this is a rare situation he was not even going to do the MRI dye test on my mid spine because he does not hardly ever see a situation like mine where the mid spine herniates and the T4 protrudes the lungs.But the doctor felt prompted and I am personally glad he did. now I know what I am up against.

I went in today to see my regular doctor to get a referral to another Nero Surgeon, because my just retired last month, and most all the Nero surgeons in my city moved away, and now we only have one left for our city. My doctor told me that the disc herniated and it pushed the T4 into the lung.

I hope this helps. I am to go to Russia in a couple of weeks for three months, and praying I can get into see this Nero Surgeon before I leave so I know where I stand with what is going on, or if I am not to go.


Thanks again
Jeanie

P.S. Can anyone see my picture on here cause I can't? Just wondering if you see it.