I discovered two new drugs/supplements (well, new to me) that have been used in some studies with head injuries. As with all drugs/supplements, make sure to do your research before buying.

1. Hydergine

2. Pyritinol

[Mark in Idaho]

Do a quick wikipedia of Hydergine. It lists cardiac valve problems as a adverse effect. Check it out.

Pyritinol is just an analog or fancy form of B-6. It may help with reaction times but is not shown to help with memory.

B-6 is probably cheaper and more understood.

[mrsD]

Pyritinol has potentially serious side effects. It is really an outdated form of B6.

We now have activated B6 (pyridoxine is not the active form of this vitamin, and has to undergo conversion with B2 and an enzyme called pyridoxal kinase).....the active version is called
P-5-P. You can buy this form, and potentially see more effects than using regular old pyridoxine. I brought attention to P-5-P over 10 yrs ago at old BT forums. Since then many many people have switched to it, and it is receiving more attention on the web in general. I use the NOW brand.

Hydergine is also problematic. At one time long ago it was the only treatment for dementia. It has fallen in disuse over time.
It is related to ergot, which is very problematic also. It was made by the Sandoz company, (who researched LSD and ergot quite a bit in the 60's and 70's.) Sandoz also made Sansert and Cafergot, both of which no longer exist. (generic Cafergot still is made however). Sandoz was bought by Ciba-Geigy, which was bought by Novartis (name change).

Ergotamine products are very iffy and dangerous. Sansert was taken off the market for causing organ failure, due to reduced blood flow.

Here is a paper warning of the use of Cafergot (Novartis still made the suppositories) from FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/S.../ucm154478.htm

Almost all other ergotamine products have been discontinued by the FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsro.../ucm108857.htm

The only approved use at this time that I am aware of is use for acute migraine, and NOT daily use because of the vasoconstrictive risks.

The FDA Orange book is offline now, so I cannot go into there and find exact products that might be available today.

In any event, I think both of these supplements are problematic and basically not safe.

I have to wonder too....if you found these at Imminst.org? If so be very careful over there. I've read that site for quite a while, and feel that it is on the extreme side much of the time. These two supplements have been mentioned over there in the past.
So do be careful!

Edit to add: While ergoloid drugs appear less vasoconstrictive that the parent ergot...they don't seem to be very effective long term.
I went to PubMed and could not find any glowing studies with Hydergine. There is a suggestion that really higher doses would be needed, but they have not been studied either. People who are into "smart drugs" are the main recipients of Hydergine...and there are warnings that Hydergine can raise dopamine (by blocking MAOI enzyme in the synapse) which can lead to psychosis and other undesirable mood effects. I did find an ANDA at the FDA for it, meaning it might come back as a brand name in the US. That would depend on what the new studies show, and if it turns out to be safe, etc.

MrsD,

No, I didn't find this information on iminist.org, although I have been to that website and found it full of meat-heads trying to find drugs that help them focus more during their workouts, whatever that means.

I found that hydergine, like a lot of other "smart drugs," has been used extensively (relatively speaking) in Europe and Asia to treat neurological problems, including post concussive syndrome and dementia. It is actually considered a prescription drug in Europe. Probably like a lot of prescription drugs, it is best taken under the supervision of a physician since it does seem to have the potential to cause side effects.I posted it here so that people can be made aware of it and ask his/her physician about them.

I couldn't find any information on pyritinol causing serious side effects. I only found info stating it caused rare harmless side effects. Do you have a link for this?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by mrsD

Pyritinol has potentially serious side effects. It is really an outdated form of B6.

We now have activated B6 (pyridoxine is not the active form of this vitamin, and has to undergo conversion with B2 and an enzyme called pyridoxal kinase).....the active version is called
P-5-P. You can buy this form, and potentially see more effects than using regular old pyridoxine. I brought attention to P-5-P over 10 yrs ago at old BT forums. Since then many many people have switched to it, and it is receiving more attention on the web in general. I use the NOW brand.

Hydergine is also problematic. At one time long ago it was the only treatment for dementia. It has fallen in disuse over time.
It is related to ergot, which is very problematic also. It was made by the Sandoz company, (who researched LSD and ergot quite a bit in the 60's and 70's.) Sandoz also made Sansert and Cafergot, both of which no longer exist. (generic Cafergot still is made however). Sandoz was bought by Ciba-Geigy, which was bought by Novartis (name change).

Ergotamine products are very iffy and dangerous. Sansert was taken off the market for causing organ failure, due to reduced blood flow.

Here is a paper warning of the use of Cafergot (Novartis still made the suppositories) from FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/S.../ucm154478.htm

Almost all other ergotamine products have been discontinued by the FDA:
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsro.../ucm108857.htm

The only approved use at this time that I am aware of is use for acute migraine, and NOT daily use because of the vasoconstrictive risks.

The FDA Orange book is offline now, so I cannot go into there and find exact products that might be available today.

In any event, I think both of these supplements are problematic and basically not safe.

I have to wonder too....if you found these at Imminst.org? If so be very careful over there. I've read that site for quite a while, and feel that it is on the extreme side much of the time. These two supplements have been mentioned over there in the past.
So do be careful!

Edit to add: While ergoloid drugs appear less vasoconstrictive that the parent ergot...they don't seem to be very effective long term.
I went to PubMed and could not find any glowing studies with Hydergine. There is a suggestion that really higher doses would be needed, but they have not been studied either. People who are into "smart drugs" are the main recipients of Hydergine...and there are warnings that Hydergine can raise dopamine (by blocking MAOI enzyme in the synapse) which can lead to psychosis and other undesirable mood effects. I did find an ANDA at the FDA for it, meaning it might come back as a brand name in the US. That would depend on what the new studies show, and if it turns out to be safe, etc.

[mrsD]

re pyritinol:

http://www.raysahelian.com/pyritinol.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyritinol

I think that sulfur linkage is problematic ...

Since the papers for it were written, the pyridoxal 5 phosphate has become easily available. P5P is the active form the body uses and is very safe.

This is the P-5-P info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxal_phosphate

B6 is needed to synthesize serotonin in the brain.
Also it is needed with magnesium to process essential fatty acids.
I tend to gravitate to this form, because failure to convert it from pyridoxine, is a significant problem for some people.
Some drugs block this, or genetic errors may occur.

I have a B6 thread here:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread30724.html

B6 has so many actions...people just don't realize!