I've been examined by Joan Ordmundy once. Three times over 5 years by F LaMarr Heyrend, M.D. with the database he developed with Ronald Barrs, Ph.D. and C Dean Simpson .

I have followed Robert Thatcher for years.

I find Len Ochs to be less than open about his research and further struggle with his promotion and use of the term neurofeedback. His system is neurotherapy. He has an FDA exemption but it does not appear he puts an effort into reporting adverse events. I find this troubling. He is very loose with his policing of customers and their claims and promotions.

I have talked with the ROSHI developer and was unimpressed.

I have discussed NFB with Cory Hammond and find some of his claims to be a bit exaggerated. He also does not proactively differentiate volitional vs non-volitional. I have only seen his recent articles referencing LENS.

The neurotherapy community needs to be more proactive with the use of terminology (volitional vs non-volitional, LENS, ROSHI). I have read the newsletters of the associations trying to piggyback non-volitional neurotherapy onto historical biofeedback and volitional neurofeedback.

Every time neurofeedback or neurotherapy is mentioned, there are too many questions left unanswered.

BCIA and ISNR have a big hill to climb to clear up the muck.

With consistent definitions and terms, the client/patient community will be better able to vet prospective practitioners.

Maybe you can be part of the solution to this mess.

Until then, adverse events will go unreported and inept practitioners will continue to fleece and injure patients.

Hi All, I am weighing in in this whole matter because I underwent two of the week long "intensives" offered by Brain State Technologies, and besides the fact that I was never informed of the potential risks involved, the practitioners (who are required to take a mere three week course in order to purchase equipment and lease software aka set up a NF practice), did not stop, slow down, or adjust protocols to my very serious complaints during the process. I would avoid any and all dealings with Brain State Technologies, as they turned out to be the most irresponsible, unethical, and simply dangerous bunch of self proclaimed experts, in a field they should have no business treating people in.

Not only did I begin to have an immediate escalation of anxiety and disorienting experiences, my entire central nervous system was taken for a disaterous and reckless ride through a nightmarish, uncontrolled crash test course. I was told that my experiences were only temporary and would resolve as sessions continued. The chief clinician was not available as he had decided to take that whole week off and attend a political rally !! To this day, some twenty months later, I have seen over a dozen experts in the mental health and neuroscience field, and have had no abatement of PTSD like symptoms, to the tune of over $35,000. My life has been so disrupted that I have been forced to stop working, I am now on medications that barely address the dysfunction, and applying for Social Security Disability.

Basically I approached BST to try to get help with a life long (managable but pesky) case of social anxiety. I was a fully functional human being, ran my own business, raised a family etc. BST made far over reaching claims to treat and cure such issues. I now experience constant anxiety and near panic, insomnia, dissociation, depression and to top it all off BST flatly denied any culpability, dismissed me and refused to extend any form of help in ameliorating my abreactions. I am currently in touch with senior members of the ISNR (international society of neurofeedback and research), and have found very kind and supportive help from them.

Yes I could say that I was naive, and that I should have done more research, that I should have chosen a NF practice with clinicians who had degrees in psychology and or neuroscience, but I chose to trust a slick website and promotional package. What a mistake of a lifetime this has become. BST will not even release records of my treatment proceedures claiming that they are not bound by HIPAA laws. I have filed formal complaints with the FDA, and Dept of Health, as well as Attorney General's offices in two states.

This total CNS dysregulation can be directly traced back to the negligence and misapplication of NF protocols, performed by Brain State Technologies affiliates, operating in an exalted state of overconfidence in their holy grail of a product. Lee Gerdes should be ashamed and publicly reprimanded for the proliferation of countless rogue neurotherapy offices and the pathetic lack of aftercare offered to paying, trusting clients like myself.

Any others similarly harmed are welcome to contact me. Thank you, manincar.

Manincar... I would like to contact you regarding this experience. We also have had this experience and would like to see what we can do to find help. ** thank you.

I was reading some of the posts on here. I am so sorry that neurofeedback didn't work for some of you. As for me, it was a huge blessing and life changer for me. I was in a car accident and suffered a brain injury. It was a very difficult time as I was trying to function as a "new" person.
Among other things, I suffered from migraines almost everyday, I no longer could be in crowded areas, I became agitated very easily, and I wasn't able to make decisions on my own without a huge anxiety attack. After seeing many doctors with no avail, I started taking more of a natural approach.
I was on high doses of Omega 3's and as long as a was very diligent in taking them, along with a couple other natural supplements I was able to function much better. However, if I missed 1 day, I was a mess and it took me a few days to "stabilize" and feel "normal" again.

I was introduced to EEG about 4 years ago. It took me about 5 months before I was able to do a full session because my brain had been so overworked and sensitive that I could not handle the protocols. We listened to my body and took babysteps starting out with just 5 minutes. We also stopped working on the cognitive side of the brain and focused on the subconscious part of the brain first.

I was only able to handle 5 minutes of that as well. I experienced a lot of the symptoms that have been mentioned on the board also, but they slowly subsided, which I believe was because my brain was becoming "healthier" and creating new pathways. I did a year of vigorous neurofeedback and I can now do simple tasks with no anxiety, I can be in a crowd for a limit time without having a panic attack, and I am on a normal dose of omega 3's for health purposes and not so that I can function and get through the day. It was a lot of hard work and time, but I have my life back for the first time since 2000. The BEST investment I made.

Sariah,

Welcome to NeuroTalk. I am glad to hear you are doing so well.

What exercises did you do with your neurofeedback ?
Was there a 'brand name' to the system or therapy ?

btw, You should ask a moderator to help you change your screen name to something more private. Maybe just Sariah or SariahC

Read the Vitamins thread in the stickies at the top. B vitamins and D3 are also very helpful to your brain. A B-50 Complex, a B-12 (1000 to 2500 mcgs) and D3 is a good start.

My best to you.

I've been reviewing comments. Have some questions but need to be private. Can some one email me for further discussion?
Thanks for understanding.

I recently began neurofeedback for PCS. I've had 20 sessions and can already tell there has been improvement. Here are some very important things to know about neurofeedback.

1. Know your practitioner. Experience is critical to effectiveness. The more the better. Confirm that your practitioner is licensed and participates in ongoing education.

2. Who is actually working with you? Many pracitioners hire techs to do the neurofeedback. In other words, you may think you're going to be seeing the named guy, but in fact, the person actually treating you is a hired "tech" working under the "name practitioner." This includes Dr. Walker in Dallas, TX. You MUST ask who will actually be working with you.

2. The most advanced neurofeedback system is called LORETA. This system is able to do things that older, less sophisticated systems are simply incapable of doing. For example, the LORETA system is constantly doing a qEEG during neurofeedback sessions. It evaluates the entire brain, and can work many parts of the brain during every session. It can treat areas of the brain that the older systems cannot, e.g., deeper areas of the brain. (Compare to older systems, which are limited in the number of areas that can be addressed and do not allow the practitioner to concurrently monitor overall progress).

3. Unfortunately, there are only 50 or so LORETA practitioners in the U.S.

4. My suggestion is to see the best practitioner possible, even if it means traveling far away. If you think it's too expensive to travel, then think again. Nothing is more expensive than paying for something that doesn't work! I saw 3 local practitioners before traveling 1400 miles to get what I feel is the best treatment. One of them (a respected man who has been practicing for a very long time - not Dr. Walker) told me that I "have a good brain." The problem is that the old system he uses couldn't detect some of the problems. AND he farms out his work to techs because he's burned out.

5. Neurofeedback is real. It can do things that nothing else can. It is useful for a variety of issues, including depression, anxiety, seizures, migraines, autism, head injuries, autoimmune diseases, ADHD, and more.

Frank Duffy M.D., Professor and Pediatric Neurologist at Harvard Medical School wrote about Neurofeedback: "In my opinion, if any medication had demonstrated such a wide spectrum of efficacy it would be universally accepted and widely used (p.v) It is a field to be taken seriously by all" (Clinical EEG and Neuroscience, January, 2000.

Miss Understood,

Welcome to NeuroTalk. You have found a good place.

You sound like an advertisement for the neurofeedback system you used.

What practitioner do you see ?

You make a lot of interesting comments. I believe there are many techs who do a fabulous job. The practitioner should be setting the targets for the tech to focus on. The qEEG tech who did my qEEG was excellent. He read the waveforms and pointed out some of the areas for the practitioner (MD) to analyze.

So, in my opinion, it is the analyzing of the waveforms to find the areas needing attention that is important. If a tech can help the client achieve the improvements, that is fine with me.

The LORETA system is just an imaging system that can be used for neurofeedback or other diagnostics just like a qEEG.

I am surprised that after 20 sessions you are only starting to see an improvement. Do you see the improvement or is the improvement based on the LORETA readings ? If you see the improvements, what improvements are you seeing ? What are you most problematic symptoms ?

What kind of treatments/efforts are you directed to as you undergo a session ? cognitive focus, relaxation, ????

I hope you improvement continues. Please keep us informed about your progress.

My best to you.

Thank you all for sharing your stories, experience and advice.

All these years I wasn't sure what exactly was going on with me but my symptoms have included severe depression, anxiety, mental breakdowns, and general sensitivity to everything. These symptoms haven't been any easier to cope with as life goes on and the more I reflected on the chain of events that have lead to how I've been feeling. I realize now more than ever that my symptoms all started with my introduction to Brain State Technologies six years ago.

After the first treatment I experienced anxiety, depression, incapacity to handle much stress, overwhelming guilt for the mildest of things, which previously would have just rolled off my back, and being a mere shadow of my former self not only adds insult to injury but has drove me here to seek understanding and help.

I was referred to Brain State Tech approx 6 years ago for ADD and issues with memory and focus. I had gotten by in life pretty well overall I guess, much like all of you had previously I'm sure. But like all of you I wanted to do better for myself without becoming dependant on Medication or anything for that matter. During my search for such a solution was when I was referred to Brain State Technologies. I was also at the time working on a start-up in the wellness space and when I came across BST thought to myself if this works I need to participate in this "advancement" in health, wellness, and humanity.

So of course like most of you I decided to get fully informed prior to attempting this treatment, so I looked at all the available testimonials, read the Lee Gerdes book and watched all the videos before deciding to call a practitioner from Northern California.

It just so happened that the practitioner I contacted had traveled to Southern California where I was living at the time to treat a friend of hers. (I dont know if I would have actually tried the treatment at all had the practitioner not been in the city I grew up in Thousand Oaks the day I called her. I found it very synchronistic)

So naturally we got together the very next day before she headed back North and she offered to give me a sample treatment.. I did the first treatment in approx an hour and felt fine but only A week later I had a meltdown by way of a major anxiety attack which felt as if I was gonna die and an overwhelming feeling or paranoia that I couldn't be alone.. This was the first time this had ever happened to me and This totally freaked me out as I'm a very stable and level headed individual, I even Managed a home for Developmentally Disabled Adults and help my clients through schizophrenic episodes regularly without issue.

So I called the practitioner told her about what happened and she said naturally that I needed more treatments as one treatment wasn't enough. One treatment did seem however to be enough to open pandora's box and I ventured to Nor Cal to receive the recommended additional treatments. 8, 1 and a half hour intensive back to back treatments two per day which left me exhausted by days end and extremely sensitive to stimuli ever since. I've been through a series of very unpleasant experiences loosing my business girlfriend, friends and peace of mind. I feel at time suicidal and apathetic to life. I feel like I have PTSD and cant get over it. Simple pleasures are gone and my lighthearted outlook on life has changed dramatically.

Not sure exactly what to do but seeing as how its been 6 years now and nothing really seems to work to reverse the effects maybe I should consider revisiting neurofeedback of some form? Maybe they've worked out the bugs and me and the many other neurofeedback pioneers or test subjects have contributed to the finding of better technologies and protocols for its use. Because of this post I will be looking into Lens, Loreta and learning more about Brain State and its developments, thank you.

Things that help with my symptoms and have helped me cope over the years are - Brainwave Entrainment, L- theanine, Gaba, alcohol, Xanax and Sex. With these I can achieve temporary relief.

Things that don't help are Marijuana, Caffeine, bad attitudes, and mean people. I hope this helps someone out there.

Similar experience with Brain State here. Only 1 week has passed since the treatment, but anxiety and insomnia are now out of control. Looking for help/possible actions to restore CNS functions. Please contact me. Thanks