[CandyCanes]

I wouldn't know since I've never tried it before and never will. But I see conflicting scientific studies, so I'm just curious about whether or not it does.

When you think about it, such rapid movement would overcome the absorbing abilities of cerebrospinal fluid and do some sort of structural damage over time-- It would definitely kill brain cells by tearing axons.

And yet musicians who do it don't see their abilities affected negatively.

How many concussions would these people suffer? Surely there would be substantial sub-concussive force?

I'm very bothered by the fact that people do this to themselves and due to OCD, I keep thinking of trying it myself just to know the answer, but I don't want to put myself at risk.

[SI33]

I doubt it, but if you'e worried about it just don't bother. I know moshing is probably in the same category - chances are you'll be wasted at the time anyway. I once headbutted an advertising hoarding because I'd had a bit much to drink, ended up looking in the mirror the next morning with no idea why I'd a big cut by my eye. We do dumb things.

[winic1]

Remember "shaken baby syndrome?" The babies can even die from the brain trauma. Now, their necks are not strong, but then again, they're not doing it to themselves on purpose. So I would guess that, if you tried hard enough, anything is possible. Besides, this is an industry where highly successful individuals and groups break apart and ruiin their careers because they "have dry spells", have "creative differences", put out work that suddenly stinks, are known for "self-medication" to the point of repeated rehab, or overdose and death, ruin their personal relationships........how do you know that this ISN'T caused by slowly or rapidly building brain damage? Not exactly a well-controlled group to study.

Don't do it. why take the risk?

[confuused905]

hardcore headbanging aka. death metal style probably carries with it a risk of brain damage, although that might also explain how you got into black metal in the first place

[Mark in Idaho]

Sub-concussive impacts have a cumulative effect that often does not manifest for years. Add sub-concussive impacts to a previously fully concussed brain and you have a recipe for a serious case of PCS.

The head and brain was not made for such trauma.

[CandyCanes]

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho

Sub-concussive impacts have a cumulative effect that often does not manifest for years. Add sub-concussive impacts to a previously fully concussed brain and you have a recipe for a serious case of PCS.

The head and brain was not made for such trauma.

I don't headbang, and I don't like metal. The problem is that I have some sort of OCD which makes me EXTREMELY bothered by seeing other people headbang. I really can't explain it, it just disturbs me to no end and makes me want a definitive answer.

But the studies on headbanging are disputed and nobody has an unquestionable answer.

So headbanging does indeed cause sub-concussive damage akin to that of heading a soccer ball, even though there is no physical blow to the head? How long would someone have to headbang for to notice effects? Why are almost all rock musicians still fine?

Also, doesn't similar force occur during jumping on a trampoline or jogging?

[Mark in Idaho]

Who says rock musicians are fine? I bet most self medicate for their symptoms.

<But the studies on headbanging are disputed and nobody has an unquestionable answer.>

Those that dispute the damage caused by head banging are no different that the neurologists and other MD's who believe you can not suffer prolonged symptoms/damage from a concussion unless you lost consciousness.

Jumping on a tramp in many cases allows the body to absorb much of the impact. So does jogging. The spine has a natural S shaped cure as a form of a spring to absorb impacts from the foot plant. The padding in modern running shoes also absorbs much of the impact forces.

Regarding your aversion to seeing head banging, I have the same reaction to seeing any form of quick head movement. People are often sensitive to seeing others involved in activities that will make you uncomfortable if they happened to you.

Some of these sensitivities are part of the PTSD spectrum of symptoms. It is like a flashback.

[CandyCanes]

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho

Who says rock musicians are fine? I bet most self medicate for their symptoms.

<But the studies on headbanging are disputed and nobody has an unquestionable answer.>

Those that dispute the damage caused by head banging are no different that the neurologists and other MD's who believe you can not suffer prolonged symptoms/damage from a concussion unless you lost consciousness.

Jumping on a tramp in many cases allows the body to absorb much of the impact. So does jogging. The spine has a natural S shaped cure as a form of a spring to absorb impacts from the foot plant. The padding in modern running shoes also absorbs much of the impact forces.

Regarding your aversion to seeing head banging, I have the same reaction to seeing any form of quick head movement. People are often sensitive to seeing others involved in activities that will make you uncomfortable if they happened to you.

Some of these sensitivities are part of the PTSD spectrum of symptoms. It is like a flashback.

So the bottomline is that it will make you dumber and eventually be as bad as several concussions over a period of time.

My friends that do this report having no symptoms. How long will it take for them to manifest themselves? Is ALL headbanging bad for the brain?

When people headbang, does the brain physically move around in the skull?

[winic1]

Originally Posted by CandyCanes

My friends that do this report having no symptoms. How long will it take for them to manifest themselves? Is ALL headbanging bad for the brain?

My husband, who still has pcs, and when tired (which is almost all the time) can't remember things said to him 10 seconds before, will tell you he's doing good, and the concussion really doesn't bother him much. He also falls asleep within 1 minute of sitting down if you don't keep him busy with something to keep him awake, at any time of day, yet he'll tell you he doesn't have a problem with being sleepy. Somebody who's got such problems, is not necessarily going to be able to tell they've got problems.

Also, I'm remembering a college roommate who said, in the same breath, "Smoking pot doesn't really have a negative affect on me at all. OH, But then I lose things in the weirdest places...!!! Within a week, she went out the back sliding glass door to the shed at 11pm (why? I dunno, no lights out there, winter in Colorado, snow on the ground, temperature -22°F, yes 22 BELOW zero) and left the door wide open. All night. Forgot to shut it on a night when the temp was 22 degrees BELOW zero. But no, she suffered no brain effects from her minimal drug use.

Um....yah. Altered people are not the best judges of what is going on.

[CandyCanes]

I see. But I'm still not sure about these four questions:

1) Just how much structural damage and brain cell death does headbanging cause?

2) How long will it take for effects to show up?

3) Does nodding your head also cause brain damage?

4) Why do people do it anyway?