Hello and please help! (And pardon if a similar case has been threaded previously)


(I am 4 months post initial concussion)


This past summer in June I bumped my head while exiting a car and managed a slight concussion with the usual symptoms, a couple weeks after that a very minor bump to the head again occurred and then yet again a month afterward I knocked my head while entering a car. Each of these bumps to the skull seemed to significantly reduce the recovery that happened after the initial impact.

But these have all been slight impacts, and for them to invoke the resulting symptoms (slowed cognition speed, rusty memory, becoming less articulate, difficulty reading) is certainly laughable and saying I have such a soft head.

As the months passed, every time I felt I was approaching normalcy I'd shake my head too much while I talked to someone, or just ever so slightly bumped it, or was too quick to putting a sweatshirt on (it's such a chore to wash my hair even!), and the symptoms of having my overall cognition/memory slowed would flood myself again (but never to the point of the severity the first minor concussion, and the recovery time between each damaging event has been lessening).

I tried seeing a doctor about this, even went to the same one twice, but he chalked it off as me being too anxious or neurotic, "because the skull/brain is made to withstand more serious blows!", he would say, and instead of actually respecting my perceived symptomatology, he recommended I see a counselor, because I was overly concerned about permanent brain damage.


Has anyone experience something similar to this?


My conclusion to what is going on is that the initial concussive inflammation has never fully healed, and that each subsequent perturbation to the cranium reawakens this inflammation, of which goes on to either suspend normal brain function because of the shock its system, or constrict the flow of blood to parts of the brain integral to the lost functions, or both. (The blood conclusion I came to because earlier when after I would walk around for hours at work, headaches would form similar to ones during caffeine withdrawal, which I interpret as an increase of blood throughout the brain, and I would feel myself to be a bit more of how I'd normally feel.)

I've been trying to heal myself this last month by supplements of gingko and St John's Wort, along with multivitamins and green foods, and I am now about to include Vinpocetine to the list.

Ibuprofen makes even more mental fogginess and encourages constipation anyway, so I don't really like taking this for the supposed inflammation.

Although one possible interpretation for the ibuprofen mental fog is that "oh, it's reducing inflammation and allowing blood to access regions of brain matter/brain functioning that have been off for some months, so this fogginess is me just having to relearn how to be normal again!" Although the threat of constipation is preventing me from experimenting with this further.

I could be drinking more water and fluids.

I have not been taking coffee or alcohol or drugs since this started.

I do find that the hours of walking I have to do at work help with the blood flow, but I am still at the point where if I were to shake or nod my head, I would feel a tightening inside my skull which I interpret as swelling, and then which goes on to depress the central nervous system, i.e. the set of symptoms I've been so far plagued with.


So can anyone relate to this symptomatology? If this still goes on for 2 more months I'm going to try to see a neuro-doctor.

Should I just wait it out and not move my head too much and drink more water?

I am hoping my blood-flow theory is correct and that the vinpocetine will help the healing process.

Any words of experience would be super-duper helpful and appreciated!

plasticfrancis,

Welcome to NeuroTalk. Sorry to hear of your re-injury. I can get full concussion symptoms from very mild impacts or movements. In fact, I can not shake my head No without experiencing symptoms. The key concept is the cumulative effect of sub-concussive impacts and how they relate to concussions and concussion symptoms.

The 2 time doctor is definitely not worth a third visit. His knowledge of head trauma is seriously deficient.

I have a few observations. First, it appears that you are a high achiever and pursue perfection in understanding. This makes you the worst for realizing concussion symptoms. You are trying to over think this situation.

I think you are also pushing for a fast recovery that is not likely. You said <My conclusion to what is going on is that the initial concussive inflammation has never fully healed, and that each subsequent perturbation to the cranium reawakens this inflammation, of which goes on to either suspend normal brain function because of the shock its system, or constrict the flow of blood to parts of the brain integral to the lost functions, or both. (The blood conclusion I came to because earlier when after I would walk around for hours at work, headaches would form similar to ones during caffeine withdrawal, which I interpret as an increase of blood throughout the brain, and I would feel myself to be a bit more of how I'd normally feel.)

I've been trying to heal myself this last month by supplements of gingko and St John's Wort, along with multivitamins and green foods, and I am now about to include Vinpocetine to the list.

Ibuprofen makes even more mental fogginess and encourages constipation anyway, so I don't really like taking this for the supposed inflammation.

Although one possible interpretation for the ibuprofen mental fog is that "oh, it's reducing inflammation and allowing blood to access regions of brain matter/brain functioning that have been off for some months, so this fogginess is me just having to relearn how to be normal again!" Although the threat of constipation is preventing me from experimenting with this further.> You make have some concepts that work but none of them are discussed in concussion research literature.

If you are taking the ibuprophen for head ache, that is fine. If you are taking it only for its anti-inflamitory value, I suggest you stop. I also suggest you stop the St John's Wort. It is a powerful drug and has no value for concussion recovery. The gingko has questionable value, the research done shows it has negligible impact on brain blood flow. Instead, try tumeric extract/curcumin. It has a good track record.

The head aches can be from increased blood flow to the brain but are more commonly attributed to the brain's failure to properly regulate blood flow. The vasoconstriction/dilation system can get seriously weakened by trauma.

The best explanation of concussion by the best researchers is it causes damage to the axons and dendrites and the myelin sheath that insulates them. The myelin takes a long time to heal. There is also a lymph system that follows the myelin that gets damaged that needs to heal to properly carry off the toxins.

The only proven therapy for recovery is quiet rest. The nutritional aspects enhance the value of quiet rest but do not take the place of quiet rest. The brain needs just enough stimulation for good blood flow but not enough to stress the system.

What doses of supplements are you taking? Most people use too small a dose to make a difference.

Feel free to ask questions and vent. There are plenty of good people here.

My best to you.

Hi francis.

I did exactly the same thing. Bumping my head on the car while exiting for the first concussion end of August, and then a week or so after, bumped my head exiting again on the opposite side (while looking for car documents in glovebox)- that second one really brought back prolonged symptoms (mainly headache, fatigue, some memory issues). It is only a brush of the head, that normally wouldn't have affected me.

I'm still recovering, and recently messed myself up taking codeine painkillers, which made the headaches go away for a short time, but after stopping, have rebounds and i am fatigued.

Bumps still affect me, especially car potholes, and putting tops or off as well.

trying to take supplements, and reading on this forum what are best to take. me too, trying to understand what is going on up there. taking neurozan plus (UK sup?), and Omegas.

doctors in the UK are rubbish at understanding this, and though i want to see a neurologist, but i've heard on the forum they arent good here, and could take months. This site has been great to understand more.

I think ill stop taking st johns wort, as mark as suggested they don't aid.

think i'm going to try also drinking tumeric milk.

Here is a similar thread I started a while back:-

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...tivity+jolting

As you can see I found little to no information on this phenomenon either, not only in research literature but in any information or guidance sheets anywhere. As such it seems highly unlikely that you will find a doctor willing to accept that this is a 'real' symptom, despite the fact that plenty of people on here and others I've heard about locally seem to suffer from it.

On a more positive note, no you are not going mad, yes this is a real phenomenon and mine has got much better since I started that thread!

Good luck with it

Glad to hear from yous!

Mark: So myelin sheath damage, I'll look into that more. I have been taking high doses of fish oil too, so that should help overall brain matter recovery. I will start incorporating therapeutical levels of turmeric, spices like oregano, and also soy lecithin. If this was just about overactive inflammation networks, wouldn't something like ibuprofen do the trick? So the malady must involve myelin sheath damage to some extent.

nugget: What is the neurozan plus suppose to do?

Klaus: Are you still sensitive to slight bumps and jolts? Any remedy that you'd recommend to sensitivity sufferers?

I'll keep posting results about my experiments with vinpocetine and lecithin.

Thanks for the replies, guys!

Neurozan plus

Each tablet contains

Ginkgo Biloba Extract equiv.to 120mg
5-HTP 20mg
L-Arginine 40mg
Glutamine 10mg
Glutathione 5.0mg
Co-enzyme Q10 10mg
Phosphatidylserine 10mg
Phosphatidylcholine 10mg
Natural Mixed carotenoids 2.0mg
Vitamin D (as D3 1000 IU) 25mcg
Vitamin E 36mg
Vitamin C 80mg
Vitamin B1 (Thiamin) 25mg
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 3.0mg
Vitamin B3 (Niacin) 32mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Folacin (as Folic Acid) 500mcg
Vitamin B12 100mcg
Pantothenic Acid 12mg
Iron 8.0mg
Zinc 15mg
Manganese 2.0mg
Copper 1000mcg
Magnesium 75mg
Selenium 110mcg
Chromium 40mcg
Iodine 150mcg
Omega-3 fish oil providing: 541mg
EPA 165mg
DHA 116mg
Vitamin E 5.5mg


So probably has most of the stuff good for a recovery, but maybe low doses to be helpful. I'm new in the supplement game so only started them, trying to see what is best and i'm going to buy some more this weekend.

I am far, far less sensitive than I was. For a while I couldn't leave the house without wearing specially cushioned running shoes as each step was too much of a jolt to my head however carefully/gingerly I walked. Now I can go for a run and generally go about my daily life without thinking about it.

I think I am still somewhat sensitive and have no intention of ever going on a rollercoaster or anything like that. Sometimes I get a jolt from something and it feels bad, but I seem to be ok each time. I expect part of it is my anxiety now, whereas before there was definitely 100% some organic weirdness going on in my head that was causing this symptom, no way was I imagining it.

It got better gradually. At the time I was taking neurozan, DHA omega oil (algae rather than fish as I am vegetarian), loads of antioxidants like blueberries, turmeric and so on. Also as when I felt able I was doing as much aerobic exercise as I could (on a stationary bike to start with as I couldn't run due to jolting). Basically I became a health freak, which I believe is the way forward for PCS sufferers.

This regimen appeared to get me better in terms of all my symptoms, including the sensitivity to jolting, and I am still following it since although I would say I've 'recovered' I do worry about the effects on my compromised brain of any future impacts as well the ageing process.

However I couldn't say exactly which aspect of that lifestyle helped which symptom, indeed for all I know I might have gotten better anyway without any of that stuff (though I highly doubt it). There is definitely evidence for the role of diet (esp antioxidants and omega oils) and exercise (esp aerobic) in brain health, so getting heavily into that stuff would be my advice.

Good luck!

OK, so I figured out the key to what was ailing me, and it was inflammation. After cues from another neurotalk thread, about glycemic index, insulin levels, and its inclination to feed inflammation, I searched for other websites talking about anti-inflammation, concussions, and glycemic levels in food.

I had been for the past several months (starting before the very slight concussion incident) been hooked on these healthy popcorn chips, averaging 5-7-9 bags a week of the glorious munch food. Because I already had many food sensitivities, to wheat and dairy and most grains, I had to rely a lot on corn to feed myself comfortably. Corn I found out though from this recent search has a significant amount of glycemic levels, that is, it breaks down to spike blood sugar levels to a degree which precipitates some insulin cycle, fueling the fires of inflammation in the body.

Since finding this out I immediately stopped stuffing myself with corn, and replaced the culinary ritual of cornstuff with beans and greens, and fish. This switch to an anti-inflammatory diet was simple enough, because I'd been already sensitive and therefore avoiding the consumption of fried foods, dairy, wheats, and others that tend to be inflammatory. Also everyday at work I would drink one bottle of sugary vitamin water, which I aswell promptly stopped.

After the next 24 hours I began to noticeably feel a change in my general cognition. It was subtle, but I just felt that that had been the key to turning this illness towards the direction of a hopeful healing.

And since then I've been everyday slightly improving. I still avoid shaking my head with too sudden movements, and still with slow care dress myself and wash my hair, but I feel for the first time that I actually am healing and there is light at the end of this concussed tunnel.

I am still taking anti-inflammatory supplements, I still could be drinking more water. I am drinking green tea a few times a week and am surprised that the caffeine doesn't wreck me like the ibuprofen or vinpocetine did.

So I'm leaving this note to those fellow travelers who encounter a similar health obstacle: *edit*change your diet to an anti-inflammatory diet to the extreme like your livelihood depends on it!! (that is, no sugar or the potential allergens: corn, wheat, dairy, starches, fried foods, alcohol, etc. to choke out the inflammation.)

Here are links to reference your life changing for the better finally:

*edit*

I am struggling with the same thing (extreme sensitivity to car potholes and bumps) . I have been told on neurotalk that these dont count as sub concussive impacts and an impact means something even very slightly that "hits" your head and these jolts and bumps cant be severe enough to be called as subconcussive impacts. But I see people in this post suspecting them as subconcussive impacts. Please clear the confusion somebody ? I have to deal with these minor bumps and potholes everyday while going to office! Although I seem to be ok with them and i dont have any major symptoms except tinnitus and road sensitivity, i dont want any obstacle in my recovery that keeps me stuck at the same place or takes me backward while I am recovering

Galaxy,

This thread has been inactive for 2 years.

Regarding sub-concussive impacts, unless you are riding down a very rough road for a substantial period of time, I doubt your are sustaining any sub-concussive damage. If you drive the same route to work every day, you should be able to plan to avoid or do other things to lessen the intensity of these rough spots. Try to avoid riding with your back rigidly against the back of the seat. Foam seat cushions could help.

And, lighten up on your anxiety over sub-concussive impacts.