So, I found out 4 weeks ago that I am borderline B-12 deficient after having a series of "spells" (possibly absent seizures, but have not been officially diagnosed yet) and asking to have my blood work checked to see if something else could be going on. My B12 score was 246. I have been getting the B12 shots weekly for the past 4 weeks and I am beginning the monthly shots here at home. I saw my nueropshycologist this morning who told me that patients with TBI's often become B12 deficient and that there is a correlation between the two. I am trying to find out more information about the correlation. Does anyone know anything about this or have any information they could share with me on the subject?

ALSO... Has anyone else out there experienced "seizure like" symptoms from a B-12 deficiency? It starts with sudden and extreme nausea that lasts for a minute or less than comes a wave of extreme lightheaded/dizzy/foggy feeling that can last a minute or much longer. Then comes a tingly sensation down the top of my arms and into my fingers and sometimes my lips. Next comes the daydreaming and I get very lethargic. Following that I get a bad headache and pain in the base of my skull and the back of my neck feels like I pulled a muscle. The whole thing lasts from sometimes 10 to 30 minutes and I will sometimes get several of these episodes in a single day. I also get ticking (tremors) on the upper RT side of my body and head sometimes too during them and some rapid eye-blinking. When I have a full day of these I feel lightheaded 24/7 for several days after this. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Mad Knitter,

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

B-12 deficiency is common with brain injuries as it is needed for myelin sheath repair. Folic acid is also needed in extra amounts. It is also needed to maintain the blood brain barrier. A blood level of about 1000 for B-12 and greater than 20 for folate is suggested for injured brains.

The shots are great to get levels up but there are different forms of B-12. Sub-lingual drops can be a good source. You also want appropriate D3 and a full complement of all the B's such as a B-50 or B-100 Complex. Check out the Vitamins... thread. I'll top post it so you can find it easily.

Another common thing with TBI is upper neck injuries, specifically at the C-1 (atlas) to occiput (base of the skull). You should try icing this area as often as possible throughout the day. 15 minutes on, 30 minutes off. Do it especially when you are symptomatic. You can make a flexible ice pack with a zip lock baggie with one part rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol and three parts water. Make a few so you can alternate them in the freezer as you use them. Wrap them in a thin towel to take away the extreme cold.

The vitamin regimen and icing should make a difference within a week or two.

My best to you.

There are many causes of low B12. One common cause today is the chronic use of acid blocking heartburn drugs. These drugs reduce acid in the stomach, which then interferes with absorption of nutrients that require acid.

These are:
B12
folic acid
calcium
magnesium
iron
zinc
and some trace minerals.

Because of this effect B12 deficiency is more common than it ever was! Some studies suggest 40% of Americans may be low.

B12 (from cyanocobalamin) and folic acid are not active in the body. They need to be converted once absorbed to their active methyl forms. This step can fail if you inherited damaged methylation genes. Estimates today are that 10-30% of Americans cannot methylate these two crucial B vitamins.
This is called MTHFR polymorphism. Luckily there are OTC versions of them available at very reasonable prices so you can correct this problem easily. Methylcobalamin and methylfolate are their names. Methylfolate is sometimes called Metafolin.
Not easily found locally but online they are now available from many quality discount sources, like iherb.com, Puritan's Pride, Amazon and Swanson's to name a few.

The methylB12 needs to be taken on an empty stomach, and daily use can be as effective as injections. This is my B12 thread, with medical information explaining:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread85103.html

MethylB12 is a cofactor in the synthesis of melatonin. For people with insomnia, this is a critical thing to understand, as it suggests methylation failure. Most doctors do not know this yet, because they do not keep up with new research.
You could use cyano every day, and if you cannot methylate it and change it to the active form, it will NOT do anything for you.
Taking oral is as effective as shots, and there are studies to prove that. So do read the link I gave and especially the links listed there that explain this so you can improve your status quickly. MethylB12 crosses the blood brain barrier, into the central nervous system, and is dependant on the gradient concentration in the serum. If blood serum is low, then little can enter the brain. So keeping your blood levels high, insures that the brain will have enough.

Eventually low B12 will lead to degeneration of the spinal cord, and paralysis, blindness and death if not treated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subacut...of_spinal_cord

It is quite possible that low B12 creates further difficulties for TBI patients, than for normals. Since it is so common, and doctors continue to follow outdated lab ranges for testing, patients in the US continue to deteriorate. The new low today is 400pg/ml. But doctors continue to accept "normal" in ranges below that, even in the face of deterioration of the patient!

That is why you need to be proactive on this subject and find out your lab results and medicate yourself if necessary.
If you are one of the 40% who are already low in B12, you are not going to HEAL a brain injury very well...and in fact you are already deteriorating from THAT before you even had the injury.

On the thread I gave you are links to medical papers illustrating that absorption of oral B12 is effective, if done properly. Presence of food in the intestine will block the micrograms needed for passive absorption (when intrinsic factor fails, due to damage to the stomach cells producing it, or when acid is removed from the stomach with heartburn drugs. Acid is necessary to enable absorption of B12 orally and from food). So it is critical to take oral B12 supplements on an EMPTY STOMACH, for best absorption.

Therefore you must learn how your body works, and work with it and not against it, to supply B12 on a daily basis to heal and maintain your nervous system. This will cost you pennies a day and is just about the least expensive insurance you can provide for yourself.

I'm looking at my Trader Joe's B 100. Only 100 mcg's of B12 - will get some more! - but 100 mg's each of thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, B6, pantothenic acid, and calcium. 400 mcg's of folate, and 100 mcg's of biotin. What values are recommended?

That probably has folic acid in it. Methylfolate is only in a very few OTC complexes today.

Folic acid is not active in the body until methylated --which can commonly fail.

Folic acid or methylfolate should not be taken if you suspect B12 deficiency...it can mask neuro symptoms, leading to a false sense of security, and neuro damage can result. This is why 1mg or more folic acid requires a doctor's prescription. With the fortification of US foods, folic acid is typically not deficient in Americans today.

This is why testing is important.

Let me give you a visual image to help explain this.
Imagine a large stadium like you see on football games on TV.
Typically they have 100,000 people or more in them.
Taking the lowest known % of people who CANNOT convert cyanocobalamin and folic acid to their active forms in the body, which is 10%.... 10,000 of those people could be non-methylators!
They are destined for serious problems if not discovered.

We have tests for DNA to determine your methylation ability, now that do not require a doctor even!

https://www.23andme.com/

The price is coming down, and becoming more available to the public
every day.

I was blood tested for B-12, folate, and D3 while taking my regimen. I used the test to confirm that my regimen was providing adequate amounts.

Getting a blood test while fasting from B-12, etc provides valuable information about how well B-12 is utilized but the blood work with the B-12, etc regimen allows us to understand if our supplement goals are being achieved.

Please let me explain how blood testing works.

First off the B12 blood level, may be misleading. It only measures what is floating around in the blood. If the B12 is not being consumed in the various tissues because it is not active, then it will appear normal or even high in the blood.

The MMA test, however, shows if B12 is actually WORKING.
This compound requires active B12 to remove it from our systems as it becomes toxic when high.
http://labtestsonline.org/understand...s/mma/tab/test

So if the MMA comes out high in testing, that shows that something is wrong with B12 in that person.

Another test to show if B12 is working, is homocysteine. This compound elevates when B12, folate, and activated B6 are not present in adequate amounts. These 3 vitamins are cofactors to methylate homocysteine to SAMe. The methyl groups are added to homocysteine , which becomes SAMe (s-adenosyl methionine) which then carries that methyl group to the liver, joints and nervous system where the various neurotransmitters are manufactured. So if homocysteine is elevated, then one needs to look at these cofactors.

The methylation chemistry is rather new. And the DNA testing also within the last decade or so. And the methylcobalamin is relatively new too. All within the last 10 yrs.

Why spend money on the older forms of these critical vitamins, when the activated ones, are available for about the same cost?

The basic screening for low B12 using serum testing, is only one tool. People may test above 400pg/ml today, and still need the supplements.
Here is an important link to Dr. C. Snow's article which explains this:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post698522-70.html

Other countries are way ahead of us about this subject.
Japan and India have had serious issues with B12 deficiency, and one can see that they treat B12 deficiency more aggressively than in the US. However, our labs in US still report low values as "normal"... that is below the new recommended low of 400pg/ml. And doctors continue to tell patients who are low that they are "normal", and the damage and suffering continue.

edit to add: There is a new test, called the transcobalamin test.
This is not yet available in all labs, and is expensive. But it is supposed to be the "best". I haven't done it yet, myself tho.
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/test...28&labCode=SJC

A hint of developing B12 problems can be seen in a CBC test which is
pretty routine at most doctors. (the tests above have to be requested specially).
This is the MCV or mean corpuscular volume. This test will elevate or hover around the upper range when B12 is becoming scarce. Often doctors completely ignore this result, and that is a shame because it
can point to a need for further testing. It measures the size of the cells in a given volume of blood and when B12 is not working the red cells are defective and larger than usual.

mrsD,

It would be great if you could post a simple list of the tests and the good and bad ranges of the results.

I have though about asking to start a Sticky for Nutrition, vitamins, supplements, hormones, meds and blood related issues. It would be great to have this all in one place. The existing Stickies have too much to find the Nutrition........ posts. It would also be good to direct discussion to the main forum so the important information does not get lost.

All the B12 info is already at PN here on the stickies.

There are so many discussions about B12 on NT, just about every forum at one time or other.

For B12 you need 400pg/ml or more. Anything less is problematic. The lab ranges reported for the serum test, are still outdated in the US.

Everyone is welcome to come to PN and read and ask questions there.

What is PN ?

What sticky thread ?

Dr Snows information is too intense for many with PCS.
We need the information in a just the basic facts format.
Your previous B-12 post is also too intense.