[Chris2828]

I'm sorry to open another thread but i am extremely worried, after i became symptoms that only occured in the first days after my concussions happened.

I have scoliosis and twitches of my lumbar spine happen. This causes my head to move very quickly down for like 1 inch(hard to discribe). It normally happens only two times a day, but after it happened about 10-15 times in a short period of time, i am really concerned as i feel that something is wrong. It happened over one week ago and the symptoms did not resolve.

My neuro could not tell me, if the brain hits the skull because of such movements. He said its possibly enough cushioned by the fluid. As the space between the skull and the brain is really small, i rather doubt it. What do you think?

[Mark in Idaho]

You have asked this question at least twice before. There is no definitive answer. The proper question would be, How much force can the brain tolerate ? Research suggests that the brain can tolerate 20 to 40 G's without any problem. I doubt your twitches even reach a level of 10 G's.

I think your greater risk is the impact your anxiety has on your healing. Anxiety causes the brain's chemistry to get out of balance. This can slow recovery.

[Chris2828]

I know that I've already asked it Mark. I had a hard time and the anxiety grew especially because no doctor managed to put my mind at ease. All neuros seemed to have no clue.
But your words have a positive effect

Do you have a source for what you've written in your last post?

20 G is enormous. I thought that even the slightest impact or twitch could cause the brain to hit the skull, as the fluid has a consistence like water and the space measures only 1-2mm.

[Mark in Idaho]

Actually, they usually use 60 G's as the threshold for injury. I reduced that number substantially because people do not believe it.

As I said, it is not the fluid space but the amount of impact the brain can tolerate. The sports medicine industry has researched this for football with G sensors mounted inside helmets.

[_Ash_]

In all my research I have never come across such a figure as that. A source would be appreciated, *edit*. Cheers.

RE. CSF. You have to picture the brain as suspended in the fluid, both fluid and brain fill your skull wholly. It is not open, or with air, so the fluid sloshes around, but is a complete volume.

With most knocks there will remain a cushion, or portion of the CSF volume between brain and skull. With a forceful enough blow, or with great momentum, this cushion is not soft put provides a tense/hard surface. With great enough force/momentum the brain can hit against the skull.

To test this: get a bottle/jar of water. put in a pingpong ball (brain) with a weight attached (brain stem) and fill completely with water (CSF). Have a shake, using diff forces. This will give you a good idea...but remember we are more sophisticated and have evolved this process for protection!

However...those twitches? I get them. Though I think of them as tremours, and this is related to my motor issues. It was unnerving but now is kinda annoying and a bit embarrassing. It is not damaging my brain.

A couple of nights ago I smacked my head rather hard againts the rail of my sons bed--went to put something on the desk and stood up in the wrong lace, duh. Symtoms flared, my headache worsened but I did not injure my brain.

[Mark in Idaho]

Ash,

Do some concussion research related to American football. You will find the information. Until you do, please do not post such negative remarks.

[Jomar]

Info-
[60 G's as the threshold for concussion]

https://www.google.com/search?q=60+G...for+concussion

[_Ash_]

Oh I thanked then clicked. That is ust a link to a google search. A search that shows those measurements are based on wearing a football helmet, and theoretical at that. Does any one have a legitimate and in depth study?
*edit* it cannot be stressed enough that opinions read on boards like these, or in articles should *always* be compared to valid sources or medical professionals/ neuroscientists ect.

*edit*

[Jomar]

The Google link has multiple results listed, readers may want to explore them..

[Mark in Idaho]

The 60 G research is based on a number of sources. The US Air Force did G research on pilots. They can experience very high side to side G forces during quick roll movements of fighter jets. The football research was done looking at the head with G sensors (accelerometers) between the helmet padding and the players head with EEG sensors and recording equipment recording the changes in brain wave form. The in-helmet sensors have recorded 120 G's or more for very small times (milliseconds). The NFL uses 98 G's as the threshold for concussions based on their research. Again, this is 98 G's at the skull, not at the exterior of the helmet.

This research has been going on in the US since the mid 1990's. I could give you a long list of names and research organizations but you would likely just discount them anyway. Here is just one : http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/relea...0-percent.html Note they have seen 250 G's of force in their research.

What is your objection to the 60 G number ? Do you think it is too high or too low based on your understanding ?