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-   -   Is anyone else still dizzy? (https://www.neurotalk.org/traumatic-brain-injury-and-post-concussion-syndrome/238896-else-dizzy.html)

Hains 08-12-2016 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidingRollerCoaster (Post 1220198)
Hains - thank you, that is great information. I'm glad you have found things that help you! Just one more question - is cold laser the same thing as LLLT? I see a lot of PTs and Chiros that say they do cold laser but it doesn't necessarily say "LLLT".

Yes, Cold Laser and LLLT are interchangeable terms.

My research differs slightly from Mark's (below). You need to focus on 2 variables: Wavelength and Power. I mentioned 660nm, 810nm, and 908nm as the specific wavelengths confirmed as therapeutic in the scientific literature. Power output is what controls the depth of penetration into the body. The scientific literature suggests that LED lights are effective but do not penetrate as deep as lasers. Therefore, lasers are more effective for large muscles, hard tissue and brain injuries. An LED will never penetrate the skull, but a laser with a high, but safe, power output (eg. 75-100mW) has a chance.

In your research you will come across varying units. Wavelengths, an expression of light, are usually measured in nanometers (nm), different wavelengths have different effects on the body. mTBI and whiplash treatment research suggest 660nm, 810nm, and 908nm. Power, the electrical output of the device projecting the wavelength, is measured in Watts (W) or milliWatts (mW). Power density (mW/cm2) is the power output per area (cm2; metric measurement), which is the coverage on your body. Energy, measured in Joules (J), is Power(w)*Time(s). Energy density (a.k.a dosage), is measured as (J/cm2). Some people will debate the appropriateness of the energy density measurement, just ignore the conversation as it will not help with your recovery. Rather, the unit you select should come with some kind of treatment protocol. Stick with that as it was approved by the manufacturer.

Also note that exceeding the recommended treatment times will cause overheating of the area and will result in inflammation, negating any therapeutic effects. I made this mistake early on. Please learn from my mistakes.

I actively use the following protocols, and am finding them to be effective. They may not be the best, but with my resources I have refined my treatment to this:

Brain Stem via back of the skull, through the cerebellum: 908nm, 60 seconds, 75mW, 1.13mW/cm2.

Neck (hard tissue): 908nm, 180 seconds, 60mW, 2.7mW/cm2.

Neck & Upper back (soft tissue): 908nm, 180 seconds, 50mW, 2.25mW/cm2.

Mark in Idaho 08-12-2016 01:50 PM

I totally disagree based on the NCBI.NLM.NIH website and basic physics. Power output relates to the amount of area that can be treated. There is a limit to the power per area (milliWatts/square centimeter) that can be safely tolerated. This varies by the wavelength. Think sunburn. The power per area is limited to 10 to 20 times the power of noontime sun, depending on the wavelength.

Wavelength relates to depth of penetration. Light wavelength is well known as related to penetration of an object. Long wavelength infrared light will pass through glass but short wavelength ultraviolet light will not. Again, think sunburn. UVA/UVB sunblock prevents short wavelength light from penetrating the skin and causing damage. It does not stop long wavelength so you still feel the warmth from the sun.


PubMed Central, Figure 2: Semin Cutan Med Surg. 213 Mar; 32(1): 41–52.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...ms430657f2.gif

The primary difference between a Laser Diode and LEDs is the focus of the energy. Lasers transmit the light in a narrow beam. Some LD systems use multiple beams to cover a larger area. Lasers were originally developed for therapeutic uses because they were the only way the wavelength could be controlled

LEDs transmit the light in a wider spray.

The laser system manufacturers have been trying to distort the facts to maintain sales as LED systems have become available at affordable purchase for home prices. But, the research shows LED's to be just as effective. Laser systems have higher power outputs that require more technical understanding of the therapy protocols so as to not cause harm. This higher power means a treatment can be shorter. Home LED systems require more time.

But, only the therapist benefits from the time savings as the therapist can treat more patients during each day. The patient has to drive to the appointment, wait, get treated, settle the bill and drive home and schedule these treatments around a daily schedule of life.

So, for me, a home LED system was the choice. Unfortunately, my shoulders have had chronic inflammation problems for 40 years and stimulating healing causes an increase in blood flow increasing already bad inflammation. As my surgeon said, I have angry shoulders but he can't see what is causing them to be so angry.

I have not tried my system on my upper neck but based on recent neck struggles, I am considering it.

Here is an interesting study about NIR penetration.
Near-IR light penetrates skull to aid traumatic brain injury - Laser Focus World

russiarulez 08-12-2016 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud (Post 1220251)
Not sure how to explain my situation but I will attempt.

I don't always feel stable but I have no evidence to prove I am not. I am doing activities that require balance again and all seems ok, yet it never quite feels like I am solid.

Not really sure if I am making it up or I actually feel off but I certainly don't feel like the old me, I try to ignore it.

Bud

Bud, I have the same issues. I can go out on a boat and balance standing on the bow with a fishing rod just fine, but always feel dizzy/off balance when walking or even sitting still. I can also ride a bicycle just fine.
So far one possibility for these issues is the binocular vision problems, and supposedly prism glasses and vision therapy is going to help (but hasn't so far).

Bud 08-14-2016 10:33 AM

RR,

Interesting, I'm glad you responded.

I usually handle things pretty well but there are times the frustration rears its head and I have to remind myself that despite the odd feelings I am getting to do what I enjoy again.

I suspect eyes also.

Bud

Estreetfan 08-14-2016 03:45 PM

Bud and RR

I have had intermittent dizziness and constant off balance issues for 4 years now. I have prisms for reading. These helped me with headaches related to reading but not the balance issues. When I am stressed or fatigued (which is not hard to do with me) my balance gets worse and the dizziness appears. It also comes on fast if I am out at an event where there is alot of sensory stimulation but never actually progresses beyond being very uncomfortable. I can still walk (carefully) and have never actually fallen altho I have bounced off walls regularly. I have figured out many ways to accommodate my other symptoms but this one continues to get the best of me.

RidingRollerCoaster 08-14-2016 05:50 PM

Ok. Thank you Mark and Hains for all of the great info. Some of it is a little to technical for me though, and it goes right over my head ;)

It sounds like you all bought your own LLLT unit and are doing it at home? I don't feel like I have enough knowledge about it to do that. Any practical advice on what to look for in a practitioner that can treat me with LLLT? So each treatment will only last a few minutes?

Mark in Idaho 08-14-2016 08:25 PM

Clinic treatments should last a few minutes per location. At home treatments last 10 to 15 minutes per location.

pcslife 08-15-2016 06:56 AM

I have been dizzy for 7 years. Not really the room spinning but sorta. Also head pressure and weird feeling goes with it. Some days bad than others. I have tried most of the things mentioned in this forum.
So far I had only temporary success.

Now I go to office full time and when I come home evening like a drunk. My work involves looking at the computer and thinking. Not really helping and I feel depressed too. I like to apply for disability at this point.

What helps me alcohol and then I can even dance :) Also antibiotics helps me as well. I take Xanax minimum dose everyday. Or I cannot get through the day. Also my dizziness and headache gets worse in cold weather. All these things I already mentioned before in the forum.

Bud 08-15-2016 09:56 PM

May sound corny but my heart really does go out to you all, I'm familiar with your club!

Keep finding ways to go forward.

Bud


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