[todayistomorrow]

This thread is for people interested in starting the keto diet and reporting their results. I've been digging into keto research for the past couple months and am hopeful that this could result in a boost to my quality of my life. Right now, most of the research for keto diet has been for epileptic seizures but it's also believed to be beneficial for people with alzheimers and TBI's.

Dom D'Agostino, who has a PhD in molecular pharmacology and physiology, is a leader in this field. Below is his website and his recent podcast on Joe Rogan(long and technical) but describes why being in ketosis is beneficial to people with brain injuries.


KetoNutrition

Joe Rogan Experience #994 - Dom D'Agostino - YouTube

It would be amazing to get a large group of people with TBI on this diet and document the effects. It does take a few months for the body to adapt to using fat as its main fuel source and the first month is going to be a very hard transition.




Disclaimer:consult with your doctor before starting any diet.

[smutsik]

I've been interested in keto ever since reading that higher levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate increased levels of BDNF in the brain but I've been having so much trouble with symptoms getting worse when I'm hungry that I don't think that the transition phase would be worth it for me. I've only been PCS:ed for 4-5 months though, so if this sticks around for longer I will try it out for sure.

How long have you been having symptoms?

[todayistomorrow]

Originally Posted by smutsik

I've been interested in keto ever since reading that higher levels of beta-hydroxybutyrate increased levels of BDNF in the brain but I've been having so much trouble with symptoms getting worse when I'm hungry that I don't think that the transition phase would be worth it for me. I've only been PCS:ed for 4-5 months though, so if this sticks around for longer I will try it out for sure.

How long have you been having symptoms?

6 years since my car accident. I tried keto for 2 days last month and my symptoms got really bad. I think the transition to keto is hard enough and is why I doubt many people with TBI have tried this route. There are things you can do to help prevent the "keto flu" such as take electrolyte supplements. Meal prep will also help the transition so you have plan for whole week.

What I'm really hopeful about is doing this with HBOT therapy. Dom mentions the benefits of doing both can be quite powerful.

Even for those that don't do full keto(and there are modified versions of keto) taking exogenous ketones and mct powder can still receive a lot of benefits. This a pretty new area and I know in general to be wary of the supplemental industry but I trust dom and he's one of the leaders in this field.

[smutsik]

Yeah I'd be trying it out if I was 6 years in, for sure. Tim Ferris has a lot of videos on ketosis too, and I found this guide when researching the subjects last week:
How To Get Into Ketosis: The Quintessential Guide

I've heard KetoCaNa recommended aswell, it seems you can eat more carbs and still remain in ketosis if you supplement. I don't know if you're doing any workouts, but supposedly one could eat more carbs before the workout. I think you could get real benefits from doing this, BDNF should be key in our struggle to get rid of our symptoms:
Ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate up-regulates BDNF expression through NF-κB as an adaptive response against ROS, which may improve
neuronal bioenergetics and enhance neuroprotection (P3.9)

If you're not read up on BDNF it is a protein that promotes synaptogenesis, or, the formation of new connections between neurons. This is hugely important when it comes to rebuilding brain structures that are damaged, as BDNF is one of the key mechanisms behind brain plasticity overall

[metmike07]

I found keto by trial and error after realizing eating rice, beans, pasta, pizza, oatmeal all in one day made my PCS symptoms worse. I cut them all out, went ketogenic, and my recovery immediately started happening faster. I've been eating this way for 1.5 years now, and stay low-carb based upon all the other metabolic benefits.

Keto wasn't a cure-all for my PCS, I still get symptoms if I bump my head or shake it the wrong way. However I still do feel better not eating all the garbage refined carbs. I recently went on a break with guests in town and much of the head fog is back after eating like crap for a week. KCKO

[Hains]

There's definitely a huge benefit to early concussion response and PCS recovery from simply removing metmike07's foods (refined carbs and processed sugars) as they ultimately lead to neuro-inflammation in most people.

For early concussion response, I don't think there's a benefit to a keto-diet. Optimal fat metabolism takes time to develop if you normally rely on glucose for energy. Since metabolism becomes impaired right after head impact you'd want to give the brain an easy glucose source from low-inflammation foods (ie. real unprocessed and low-glycemic foods).

But for PCS recovery, I think a keto-diet can be beneficial for improving PCS related metabolism dysfunction and reducing neuro-inflammation. The science and research that I rely on hasn't definitively shown this, however the current science being published seems to be leading down this path.

There's some positive research in other fields like Alzheimer's research that I think we 'post-concussed' heads can draw from.

I've personally cycled through a few types of keto-diets, including fasting and mct-oil induced states, I found it to be beneficial for reducing brain fog and enhancing cognitive function which directly resulted in a big improvement in my office work performance.

I would promote the keto-diet cycling as a beneficial tool for people who are "stuck" with PCS and looking for something to get their recovery out of a rut.

Some good reading:

1) This study provides a solid description of the cascade of events following a concussion:
The Neurometabolic Cascade of Concussion

2) This study provides some information on keto-diets and TBI:
Ketogenic Diet - Nutrition and Traumatic Brain Injury - NCBI Bookshelf

3) This 2017 study from the Alzheimer's research field showing benefits from keto-diets:
Ketogenic diets and Alzheimer’s disease - ScienceDirect

Cheers

Hains

[Mark in Idaho]

From a broad observation of keto diets, It appears the main benefit may be from what foods are reduced or avoided than any ketosis effect. MCTs and other diets are like adding gas to a hybrid without regard for the fuel level in the tank. Only so much MCTs and other fats can be used. But, removing the carbs, especially bad carbs and being focused on healthy eating rather than the trash eating common to many diets can be a big benefit. The human body was never designed for the sugar and carb consumption levels common to many diets.

It would be interesting to see a compilation of the good carbs. Does the glycemic index (GI) of carbs have a direct relationship to good or bad carbs ?

Beans are our common carb. They have a GI in the 30s. A GI below 55 is good. Below 40 is great.

[Vania]

I am planning to try a variant of the SCD or GAPS diet, which shares the most important aspects of the ketogenic diet (in particular, no carbs). The GAPS diet was developed to help people with neurological disorders, based on the idea that many of those pathologies are due to an imbalance in the gut flora. I believe that there is some truth to it, that good gut health is important for the body to recover, and that - at the very least - the anti-inflammatory properties of this diet can be helpful.

I am planning to start next week and to try to do it for several months. I will report my progress here. I wish you all the best of luck.

[todayistomorrow]

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho

From a broad observation of keto diets, It appears the main benefit may be from what foods are reduced or avoided than any ketosis effect. MCTs and other diets are like adding gas to a hybrid without regard for the fuel level in the tank. Only so much MCTs and other fats can be used. But, removing the carbs, especially bad carbs and being focused on healthy eating rather than the trash eating common to many diets can be a big benefit. The human body was never designed for the sugar and carb consumption levels common to many diets.



Beans are our common carb. They have a GI in the 30s. A GI below 55 is good. Below 40 is great.

this article on tbi and Keto talks about ketones as a fuel source and the benefits. Many of the items discussed I've heard Dom Dagostino mention in his podcast about the glut3 transponder being damaged in patients with TBI and is a cause of neuro-inflammation.

http://https://ketogenic.com/therapeutics/ketosis-traumatic-brain-injury/

I'm seeing doctors right now at Mayo and getting imagine done but will be starting Keto in the next month and post results. My headaches and brain fog/head pressure are horrible so will be good barometer for anyone else who has this as their main symptoms.

[Mark in Idaho]

Read the rat studies "Rats received a daily 5–10 g/kg dose of their respective ketone supplement via intragastric gavage (force feeding by gastric tube)during treatment." A 50 kg person would need 250 to 500 g (.5 kg) of exogenous ketones each day, not just the small amount of ketones a liver releases from ketosis.

If one is to do this with a ketogenic diet, it requires a total dietary commitment for 7 days just to start ketosis.

Consuming exogenus ketones bypasses ketosis. But, at $60 for 30 servings of 4 grams each, it would cost $120 per day to get to 240 grams.

Rat studies are interesting but the fine details are very important.

The problem with keto diets is the promoters take a few comments from a study and make a mountain of claims. The promoters all have something to sell.

btw, Most of the concussion studies show the same thing. The therapeutic time is the first 48 hours. The rat study looked at prepping the rats with exogenous ketones before the impact and immediately after the impact. Most studies show limit value to these protocols after the first 48 hours or so. Reducing the negative dietary ingredients so as to not hamper healthy brain metabolism is still valuable.

We must remember, concussion is a process, not an event. Interupting the process in the first day is important.

But, if you commit to a keto diet with passionate beliefs, there is evidence that placebo effect can enhance any natural healing processes.