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Old 03-05-2018, 02:06 AM #1
Hom3mad3 Hom3mad3 is offline
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Default Advise on dating a very special girl with a tbi

OK here goes... I met this girl around 3 or 4 years ago. I had just gotten out of a marriage, she was cute I thought. She doesn't remember that day but I do down to what we talked about and what she had on. I honestly thought she kinda ignored me a bit. I saw her a few times over the next year just hanging with mutual friends. We became closer over time. It wasn't until recently that I really got to know her maybe over the last 6 months or so. I now knowing who she is as a person have become interested in dating her.

She is 7 years younger than I am she is 30 I am 37. She had her accident in may of 2013, crushing her pelvis, breaking both arms and of course the tbi and a stroke. I am amazed by her attitude and outlook on basically everything. Her recovery to me is astonishing. I have done loads and loads of reading about tbi and it's effects. I can tell she doesn't like background music but if it's too loud to talk over she is good. I can tell Wal mart is hard, cooking is taxing, fatigue and memory loss come into play sometimes. She is never the first one to laugh when a witty joke is played but other than that, I feel like she is "normal" but better than that. She has an emotional intelligence that's just wow! When she is trying to make a point she nails in down quite concisely, and you don't want to disagree without some strong evidence to back it up. She is encouraging and always has a lightness about her.

She calls and texts me everyday hugs me when we meet and part. I am used to reading body language and she ticks all the boxes playing with her hair ect lol at this point If I change the way I am sitting she will mirror it. If I brush the hair from her eyes she will laugh slightly and break eye contact. She makes excuses to hang out .... you get the point.

We basically have the same core group of friends. They all comment on how much we talk like hey what's up with you guys. The only other person she shares with the way she does me is her childhood BFF who is a gay guy and lives a few states away. I got the chance to talk to him about it the last time he was in for a bisit and he laughed because he said he had a conversation with her about dating. She told him that she wasn't ready which is why he laughed because he could see how she was being as well. I somehow one night got into a relationship talk with her and she said the same thing. She hasn't been in a relationship sense her accident the one she was in at that time she said they just couldn't work it out. I am willing to be patient but I feel like she is scared. I know she knows I like her. I feel like even if I had conversation about it she might not be receptive. I think she is afraid of being intimate. If anyone has any insight I'd love to get some feedback. Thanks in advance
Kurtis Lowe
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:42 AM #2
Mark in Idaho Mark in Idaho is offline
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Hom3Mad3,

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

Wow. It looks like you have had quite a time analyzing her. I can't imagine a woman letting me brush hair from her face, not even my wife. I don't know what to read into that act.

When researching TBIs, did you read about how many have a difficult time forming emotional relationships? Her emotional intelligence may be such that she needs to look at a situation and form an emotional response that does not flow naturally. I can't say what she is doing but just know that I have to be rather analytical about responses.

I think you need to make your intentions known. Maybe something like, " I know you are hesitant to enter a relationship but I would love to explore a closer relationship with you. I am willing to be patient as you consider where you want to be in a relationship but felt I needed to let you know how important you are too me."

You risk her pushing back and losing what you already have but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Maybe instead of being so forward, you could try to ask her about how she sees the world after suffering her TBI. Please do not let on that you have been studying her like a lab rat. Let her explain how she functions, if she feels up to it.

Many with a TBI don't even understand their own symptoms or the coping mechanisms that they have developed. It sounds like she does not need rescuing. Don't let her get that sense. It can be a bit humiliating to experience that sense that others see you as broken and needing fixing. Just like any relationship, there is no fixing her. She is a whole person, just not necessarily with the same order of priorities in her life as some others.

Please, let her lead and tell you about herself.

My best to you.
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:54 PM #3
Hom3mad3 Hom3mad3 is offline
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Mark first thank you for your response. I'm not saying that I am studying her I am just observant, and have a habit of reading body language. Body language will tell you a lot of things people won't tell you themselves. The brushing of her hair away from her eyes is a big one. most women will pull away instinctively if they are not interested or don't fully trust you. If they want to be kissed they will hold your eye contact. This girl does neither. I 100 percent know she doesn't need saving and if she did I wouldn't have the interest that I do. I've been very open with her that I am researching tbi related topics. She said she was flattered that I would take time to get to know her and her situation better. So perhaps see if I can casually work in how she views relationships after her accident. I really would like to save the forward Ness as a last ditch. I think you very well could be on to something with emotional processing. I will do some research on it later. Just got a text from her asking if I would take her to a Dr apt at the end of the month and come in with her. To me that's an odd request if she views me as a friend but of course I'd be happy to either way. Anyway thanks again Mark I do appreciate it sir
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Old 03-05-2018, 04:02 PM #4
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We definitely openly talk about everything. I hope she doesn't feel like a lab rat that would be weird. Sorry I had to throw that in it kinda made me feel creepy.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:30 PM #5
Mark in Idaho Mark in Idaho is offline
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The invitation/request to go to the doctor appointment opens a door. First, she likely is in need of somebody to help her communicate properly with the doctor. Most doctor appointments are just verbal. She may be asked a question and not give a complete answer. You may have more to add to her answer. She may not remember what the doctor said so you can take notes. She cannot take notes for herself. She will miss too much.

This can be a qualifier for a deeper relationship. A comment, "I really want to be there for you." could open some dialogue. How she introduces you to the doctor may be indicative.

Do not go researching TBI and try to recognize symptoms. That will backfire. It is better to help her with her struggles then consider whether that struggle is TBI related. The problem in doing research is simple. With this knowledge, you become like the guy with a hammer in his hand. Everything starts to look like a nail. We have plenty of people who post here on NT who have this big list they found in their research. They think they have every symptom in the book when in reality, they may have a few and the others are 'power of suggestion' or the result of looking for a specific symptom.

There is ONE place for you to do your research but it will allow you to both work through it together. Download and print out Dr Glen Johnson's TBI Survival Guide at Traumatic Brain Injury It is a Word document with 85 pages so be prepared. You can use the Highlight function in MS Word to read and highlight rather than print it out. Many find it is easier to print and read.

You can give her a copy to read and highlight. Then, you can read her comments with her. You could read and highlight a copy yourself then compare notes. But, if you read and highlight your copy, be very careful. Maybe, "What do you think about his comments on page x?" but not, I think you manifest the symptoms he mentions on page x. Try to be responsive, not intrusive. There may be symptoms she does not want to address right now.

Most TBI symptoms have a myriad of ways we can develop work-aounds and accommodations. Work arounds are known to be the best way people with TBI limits move forward. Trying to use therapies to improve functions (except motor functions) tends to be stress inducing.

If there is a TBI support group you can attend, that can be helpful. Some areas have TBI support groups and stroke support groups. There is a big overlap in how they each impact our lives.
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Old 03-05-2018, 06:39 PM #6
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Allow me to speak on behalf of my people Kurtis. What you're describing is basically just dating stuff, unrelated to any injury. Meaning it sort of doesn't matter what a person's reasons are for feeling not ready for a relationship (e.g. bad break-up, focused on career, TBI, etc.). Ya know what I mean?

Here's the thing - she might like you AND still not be ready. People / life are complicated, as you know. So you might totally be getting flirty signals and it still doesn't mean she's ready for the type of relationship you are. Honestly, if it were me, I'd listen to what she's saying about her readiness. Like really listen.

And after that if you still want to pursue something, you guys just need to have an open conversation about what she might be comfortable with for the time being. Otherwise you risk building her and a potential relationship with her up in your head. And that's never a good thing for anyone. My .02

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Old 03-06-2018, 12:43 AM #7
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Wow, Mark thanks again for your time I sincerely appreciate it! I think perhaps I miscommunicated. When we met I knew that she had a TBI. I didn't know what it meant or what was associated with it. Over the last 6 months of us kind of becoming a lot closer it was when I did the research. We have totally talked about all the things that I found all the things that affect her how, and to what extent they affect her. She responded well she was flattered that I would even take the time to look the trying to understand what she was going through. She said not that many people would actually take the time to try and understand. And I'm totally guilty of that I probably wouldn't had I not had an interest in her. I told her I would be there for her for anything she needed mentally or physically. Funny you mention that I actually did go to a TBI support group without her just to see. I gained some perspective and it was worth going. I'm not trying to fix her I like her the way she is. I guess the point is I know it's out of my hands she has done a remarkable job with everything she has been through. She never gives up and hardly let's anything bring her down! We are past me learning what bothers her and at this point the I know when she hits the fatigue wall before she will admit it. I want her to be happy and have as full a life as she wants to have. These "work arounds" seem very interesting to me maybe she and I can chat that up at some point. I guess my main concern is the mixed signals. I am sure if she didn't like me or thought I was going to hard she would tell me flat out. I don't think she needs me to take notes, she likes to use her cell to record conversations. Then she later transfers what's needed to her notes. I must say it was weird when she played back a phone conversation she and I had. Then I realized she needed to do it and I got over hearing the sound of my voice. I called her after getting the Dr visit text she said she wanted me to be there to "hold my hand and make sure I am comfortable". I am a decent communicator I would like to think. I am not some pick up artist or anything but I do fairly well with women. This girl is super special she isn't like most women. Lol I sound like a middle school kid with puppy love ha! Anyway I'll read up on the work-arounds, in the mean time she asked if I would pick her up from pt on Thursday afternoon. I reworked my work schedule and made it possible. I am rambling at this point sorry and thanks again!
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:18 AM #8
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Maggie, first thank you so much for your reply. I very much enjoyed your opener it was light-hearted and cute. I think you're definitely on to something. I would totally really listen if I were to get an answer that was more than I'm just not ready for relationship. I don't want to push my luck and press her about it possibly come off needy that's not a good look. Haha I appreciate you looking out for my head space. I try to stay grounded and not build up anyone as to play games with myself. Been there done that got the T-shirt never wear it! I have always been of the nothing ventured nothing gained school of thought but something tells me that's not the correct approach here. I guess at some point I have to sack up and push for an answer. Anyway I very much appreciate your time and your thought.
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:25 AM #9
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I am debating, skipping a conversation about it and just going in for a kiss at some point. I feel like it may or may not take anxiety out of the situation for her.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:56 AM #10
Mark in Idaho Mark in Idaho is offline
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Kurtis,

My point is coming from knowing a fair number of both men and women who have had TBIs and strokes from my TBI support group. We discuss these issues. Relationships are a struggle for many. Having an understanding friend or significant person is important for the injured party. But, some remain a bit protective in some parts of their life. Struggles with intimacy is not uncommon. Libido is a common issue.

Statistically, relationships with TBI survivors are a challenge. Anybody that suggest they are not different from a normal romantic relationship has limited understanding.

I understood the time line of her TBI before you met her.

Has she ever had a Neuro Psychological Assessment? That is a valuable assessment.

Regarding work-arounds, studies show that those who can master using a smart phone to help with memory and calendars and such needs get great benefit from their smart phone.

The request to 'hold her hand' at the doctor could be the ice breaker you are looking for. Some with TBI have odd touch sensitivities. In my opinion, if she is open to physical contact, offer and let her respond. Offering a hand or a hug lets her keep control. Some have compared some with TBI to having some interpersonal and physical issues similar to Asperger's. It does not sound like she has such reservations.

I think a person with a TBI can be an excellent partner. The self-awareness of personal limits and being tolerant of others because they know struggle can be the basis for a lasting relationship. Being tolerant of her ups and downs as the price of admission can help you with realistic expectations.

By fix her, my point was about the likely permanence and even slow deterioration of her condition is to be expected and not fought against. Studies show that those who accept their limitations and invent a life that accommodates those limitations do the best. It sounds like she has already been successful at this. Those who do not accept their condition tend to live a life of stress and anxiety that takes a toll on those around them. When those around them expect them to work at getting better, the same stresses arise.

I know too many people who have told me I could do much better if I would just try. I've recently decided that the next time I hear this, I will explain that my neuro has never seen a patient with such severe dysfunctions who can function at such a high level. It is frustrating to deal with those who claim neuroplasticity means I can get better.

Oddly, when we just get on with life, there are ah ha moments where we suddenly realize we have regained a function we thought we had lost. It may be we learned a new way to accomplish that task.

I wish you the both the best.
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