Traumatic Brain Injury and Post Concussion Syndrome For traumatic brain injury (TBI) and post concussion syndrome (PCS).


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Old 05-17-2018, 08:50 PM #1
ConcussedMathGuy ConcussedMathGuy is offline
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Default Math(Intellect) and Concussions

I was considered by myself and my peers to be a pretty good math student before my concussion and hoped to pursue a math-based career later on in my life. However after my concussion, I have begun to question my mathematical abilites and wonder if they will ever be up to par again. I suffered my concussion by getting hit in the head with a baseball and it was pretty mild. However about five weeks later, I have been hit in the head with a basketball twice since the event; once when my friend lightly passed to me and I wasn't looking; and the second time he tried to fake throw the ball at my head and it slipped. (is this sub-concussive force), would this cause permanent damage? Have I screwed myself in my pursuit of math? I really hope this isn't too bad I love math and want to pursue it.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:24 AM #2
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ConcussedMathGuy,

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

It does not sound like the two basketball hits were concussions and likely not even subconcussive impacts. A subconcussive hit has a momentary "Woo, I got hit" sensation, not just an awareness of the head making contact. Subconcussive impacts are bad because a player may suffer 5 to 10 in the time of one game or one practice. There is no time off between hits. A single basketball bump does not fit that description.

You don't describe the baseball hit. What symptoms manifested immediately and then later after the hit?

Unless you have already experienced some cognitive difficulties with math, I would not expect you to have any difficulties moving forward. Even if you did, many of the thinking skills for math can be retrained. Relearning to focus to 'juggle' multiple variables in the head while you process them just takes discipline. I used to challenge my brain with mental math at the store as I added up prices. Back in those days, everything has a price sticker on it. I still do such exercises but I cannot do it like I used to. I had a few setbacks during high school and college and had to retrain myself. But, my concussion was quite severe and required hospitalization for 3 days.

Can you help me understand something?

We routinely get questions like yours. Where does the thought of brain damage from a simple head bump come from? Did you see the movie Concussion and it scared you? Is there other information being presented that leads to such concerns? Are schools trying to teach about concussion safety? What have you heard?

You and your friends need to agree to not joke around about head hits. No fake hits that become real hits. These hits were not an issue in my opinion but the behavior is reckless and shows a disregard for basic common sense.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:39 PM #3
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Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho View Post
ConcussedMathGuy,

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

It does not sound like the two basketball hits were concussions and likely not even subconcussive impacts. A subconcussive hit has a momentary "Woo, I got hit" sensation, not just an awareness of the head making contact. Subconcussive impacts are bad because a player may suffer 5 to 10 in the time of one game or one practice. There is no time off between hits. A single basketball bump does not fit that description.

You don't describe the baseball hit. What symptoms manifested immediately and then later after the hit?

Unless you have already experienced some cognitive difficulties with math, I would not expect you to have any difficulties moving forward. Even if you did, many of the thinking skills for math can be retrained. Relearning to focus to 'juggle' multiple variables in the head while you process them just takes discipline. I used to challenge my brain with mental math at the store as I added up prices. Back in those days, everything has a price sticker on it. I still do such exercises but I cannot do it like I used to. I had a few setbacks during high school and college and had to retrain myself. But, my concussion was quite severe and required hospitalization for 3 days.

Can you help me understand something?

We routinely get questions like yours. Where does the thought of brain damage from a simple head bump come from? Did you see the movie Concussion and it scared you? Is there other information being presented that leads to such concerns? Are schools trying to teach about concussion safety? What have you heard?

You and your friends need to agree to not joke around about head hits. No fake hits that become real hits. These hits were not an issue in my opinion but the behavior is reckless and shows a disregard for basic common sense.

From the initial concussion, I had light sensitivity, brain fog and cognitive regression. After the two basketball hits I felt a resurgence of my symptoms (brain fog and worse at math) and have been paranoid if I will ever regain my old mathematical ability after being hit. I was hit in the head while I was only about 80% healed. Because I wasn’t fully healed could it cause another concussions even worse permanent damage? Also should be expected to make a full recovery if I got hit in the head while still concussed. Also the resurgence of my symptoms made me paranoid enough to post this.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:40 PM #4
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Originally Posted by ConcussedMathGuy View Post
From the initial concussion, I had light sensitivity, brain fog and cognitive regression. After the two basketball hits I felt a resurgence of my symptoms (brain fog and worse at math) and have been paranoid if I will ever regain my old mathematical ability after being hit. I was hit in the head while I was only about 80% healed. Because I wasn’t fully healed could it cause another concussions even worse permanent damage? Also should be expected to make a full recovery if I got hit in the head while still concussed. Also the resurgence of my symptoms made me paranoid enough to post this.
I had a concussion 6 months ago. Blacked out for 10 sec. Got taken to a hospital. Terrible accident.

And I work in architecture - a fairly technical field.

The weird thing is, the first week after the concussion, I felt terrible, but my cognitive function became sharper and more intuitive for some reasons. I pushed through work, with some struggle for the following two months. Until I couldn't handle a working day no more. I couldn't think. I couldn't do quick math. I couldn't solve problems.I couldn't understand a technical document. I couldn't even spoke properly. Everything overwhelmed me. I decreased my hours.

Then I increased my hours slowly for the following months. Until I worked full-time again.

It was a struggle at first. But the more I use my brain at work, the more i am comfortable with all the cognitive tasks involved in my jobs. And now, I am comfortable with working full-time, even over-time, with thinking and working properly again.

You will regain your thinking and your skills. I don't think having a few bumps stops you from pursuing Math at all.

Same with me trying to cycle again. When my healing wasn't sufficient, cycling up hill brought me a temporary blindness. Then I took cycling slowly. Then I stopped and waited for it to heal more. Then one day i said enough and started cycling to work again. The first two days or even weeks were terrible. But I am getting used to it now. Cycling at night is still a bit tiresome because of my vision problems. But I am getting used to it now.

I am still not healed yet, though.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:47 PM #5
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Every concussion leaves permanent damage. The big question is whether it interrupts a normal life. For most, they only see a return of symptoms when they are under stress. The repeated question of "what will my future be?" without focusing on the here and now to move forward is counter productive.

Second Impact Syndrome is not from a basketball to the head after 5 weeks.

You still have not explained the first concussion.

What is cognitive regression?

You may have a bit of a relapse from the original concussion. That is not uncommon. It can be from the actual physical impact or it can be from a "Oh no. I took a hit to the head." anxiety. The symptoms are usually the same.

There are plenty of symptoms that will interrupt complex cognitive processes without being brain damage to cognitive processing. Many will find they have a different and less effective way they process ambient stimuli so they have a lesser level of focus on a task so the math processing that was so easy before now takes an effort to disregard the ambient stimuli so it does not interrupt the math processing. Anxiety makes this even worse. A common term for this is "Stop to Think." Often, once the 'Stop other distractions' is done, the thinking is much easier. Doing math with ear buds blasting can become a problem that did not exist prior.

An important concept to understand is: Every concussion is different. What one person experiences has no relation to what others experience. The experts cannot even predict the severity of symptoms. The only predictor is pre-existing conditions. It the person has an intense lifestyle or stressful or anxiety filled lifestyle, they will have more symptoms and they will last longer, statistically. There are always the rule breakers. As I said, there are no normals.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:00 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho View Post
Every concussion leaves permanent damage. The big question is whether it interrupts a normal life. For most, they only see a return of symptoms when they are under stress. The repeated question of "what will my future be?" without focusing on the here and now to move forward is counter productive.

Second Impact Syndrome is not from a basketball to the head after 5 weeks.

You still have not explained the first concussion.

What is cognitive regression?

You may have a bit of a relapse from the original concussion. That is not uncommon. It can be from the actual physical impact or it can be from a "Oh no. I took a hit to the head." anxiety. The symptoms are usually the same.

There are plenty of symptoms that will interrupt complex cognitive processes without being brain damage to cognitive processing. Many will find they have a different and less effective way they process ambient stimuli so they have a lesser level of focus on a task so the math processing that was so easy before now takes an effort to disregard the ambient stimuli so it does not interrupt the math processing. Anxiety makes this even worse. A common term for this is "Stop to Think." Often, once the 'Stop other distractions' is done, the thinking is much easier. Doing math with ear buds blasting can become a problem that did not exist prior.

An important concept to understand is: Every concussion is different. What one person experiences has no relation to what others experience. The experts cannot even predict the severity of symptoms. The only predictor is pre-existing conditions. It the person has an intense lifestyle or stressful or anxiety filled lifestyle, they will have more symptoms and they will last longer, statistically. There are always the rule breakers. As I said, there are no normals.
Ok let me slow down and answer. My first concussion occurred when I was at the batting cage and the ball went through the net and hit the side of my head resulting in a mild concussion. My symptoms were brain fog, light sensitivity and cognitive trouble. After 5 weeks I felt mostly healed, until I went to the gym to play pickup basketball 2 days later(bad idea). Someone tried to do the move where you fake pass the ball at someone's head but the ball slipped and hit my head. This caused a spike in my anxiety, but I felt fine after the hit and continued to play. A similar hit with a basketball happened again 2 days later which again spiked my anxiety and caused symptoms to come back. Symptoms include brain fog, light sensitivity, and sensitivity to screens. Seeing as sometimes basketballs can be fairly hard, I'm wondering if I screwed myself over by taking these hits while I was still recovering? With proper rest starting today should I be able to get at least to 95% as this was my first and hopefully last concussion.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:42 PM #7
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How long ago was the original hit? 2 months or so?
Most likely you are much too early to worry about long term issues..
I'd say slow down on activities for awhile, slowly add them back as tolerated, avoid worrying as that doesn't help anything & don't put yourself in a situation where you might get more hits/knocks..

Side of head baseball hit may have misaligned your c1 c2..
any idea on how fast the ball was moving?
softball, hard ball - lobbed or fast pitch
ball sent by a person or machine?
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:03 PM #8
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Nothing says you are not at already at 95% but held back by some anxiety. We see it all the time. Resolve the anxiety and the recovery is obvious. Give yourself a break.

If you stop over analyzing the situation and yourself, you will do much better. There are no answers to your questions. The best you can do is take care of yourself. No contact sports. No batting cage without a helmet. Read the Vitamins sticky and get started feeding your brain. Learn about how you can reduce your anxiety.

I looked up the speed of a pass and the weight of a basketball. At most, those hits were at a subconcussive level, no more, but I doubt it.

When you think you are cognitively struggling, stop and observe your environment. The sounds, sights, and even smells and other sensations that can over-stimulate you can make it difficult to process the cognitive task. Try reducing those stimulations and you should do better. Your anxiety makes those stimulations even more difficult to block out.

Often, recovery is a process in learning to relax and focus. Give it time.

My best to you.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:47 AM #9
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Hello ConcussedMathGuy,

I am facing similar problems, with the difference that I am older than you (31) and already established in academia as a mathematician. My concussion history is also worse than yours. I work on complicated fields that require both intuition and long formal proofs.

I think that some of our cognitive difficulties are anxiety-driven. After my concussion number 2, I had trouble going through complex reasoning, keeping track of variables, etc. Now in retrospect I think that these problems were self-generated. I was so stressed out about permanent brain damage that I was over-obsessing about any mild form of cognitive impairment, even the kind that probably happened also before my accidents when I was tired, anxious, not rested, etc. This not only impaired my healing, but it also made my cognitive performance itself worse, as I was seeing every cognitive effort as a diagnosis test to evaluate how screwed I was. When I realized it and decided to let it go and simply "enjoy" doing math again without any pressure, my cognitive symptoms faded away and I quickly came back to my pre-accident levels (the physical symptols stayed though).

After my concussion number 3 (4 months ago), my cognitive problems have become more severe (trouble reading, concentrating in seminars, etc.) and I start doubting that I have a future in academia. This also generates negative feelings, as math was also my passion and I was very good at it. That said, even now, when I am unable to do research on my own, I still have found some workarounds to try to stay productive while I am waiting and hoping to recover a bit more. I now give some of my ideas to my colleagues, post-docs and PhD students. They do the "dirty work" (proving theorems, algebra, etc.), while they benefit from my knowledge of the field and from my intuition (which, surprisingly, is intact). This is not a sustainable arrangement in the long term but it allows me to stay active in this business and to give myself more time before making an irrevocable decision (quitting, which I will perhaps be forced to do).

For you the problem is a bit different since you still have to acquire education but I think your concussion history is still too short for you to worry about your math skills. One of our post-docs received two severe concussions from skiing (without a helmet) when he was between 20 and 25. He took several months off work to recover from each. He is completely symptom-free now and he is even the most productive guy in our group. He got a lot of recognition for his work. Of course every concussion history is different but I hope this example will allow you to break the automatic association "concussion -> permanent inability for math" that you seem to have developped.

I wish you all the best. I am happy to talk more about it if I can help you.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:20 PM #10
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Default Possible Concussion: Panic!

Hey guys it's me again, I wasn't planning on posting this but I recently developed some major anxiety surrounding a hit that I sustained about a week ago

While I was healing from my first concussion I was playing basketball with some of my friends I was hit in the head with the ball

It occured when my friend was trying to fake a pass at my head using two hands and pushing the ball fowards, but the ball slipped and hit from the top of my nose down.

As I closed my eyes before the impact, I didn't see how hard the ball was traveling.

I remember feeling some pain after the hit but nothing too major so I continued to play.

Is it possible for this throw at my head to have caused concussion #2? Hypothetically, in that situation how far would he have to throw the ball at my head to cause a concussion? Was I more susceptible due to my first concussion?
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