Hi there,
I got knocked out a week ago playing soccer, told i had concussion and told not to do anything that would put me at risk of hitting my head again for 4 weeks. I have had all the 'normal' concussion symptoms, headache, dizziness, fatigue, nauseousness etc but am worried about how long they will last this time. This is the 5th time I have been concussed and im only 20, so the doctors not too happy with me. The thing is they don't really explain the effects or consequences of repeated concussions, so wondering if anyone else has any info. 4 years ago I had a pretty bad knock to the head and had post concussion syndrome for about 1 1/2 years after and im worried that could happen again. At the moment i am really tired always, have frequent headaches, can't concentrate very well and get really annoyed easily...all the while im trying to continue living life!
any info or similar experiences greatly appreciated,
thanks

I'm sorry to say, I think your sports career (should be) over.
If you value your life at all.

There are those of us here, with just one "head hit", (and if you read up on it, another one surely follows, just because you've had one) NOT because you're a sports star!

I'm (was) a working man, got head hits by putting on over 2 mil. miles driving so far.
That's a lot. Risky as sports, especially "heading" a ball.

I've heard talk that that is going to be banned.
It's just too harmful.

How are you gonna feel when you're my age? 53?
You've already felt what it's like, you want more?

Four years ago you had it bad. And,, now you're back.
Do you think it's gonna get better? Fast? 100%?
If so, you have high aspirations.

I truly hope, that you do regain 100%, I'd be happy with whatever you're happy with.
What I wouldn't be happy with, is seeing you out on a field again.

Sorry I'm being tough on you. (I"m doing it purposely)
Look at the Helpful Links at the top of this page.
Then, you decide, if going out on the field is worth what most of us around here go through daily, what you're going through daily.
There' no guarantee you'll get better now. You may get worse.

See a good neurologist, and get scanned.
Read those links!
Study!
(As much as you can concentrate right now).
And, I'd even advise wearing a hockey helmet for the next month or two!

This is nothing to "be cool" about!

You're injured, perhaps permanently.
Please, take it serious!

(You're younger than my children, that's why I get "agitated" and "alarmed".)
See, I'm acting out on you, and, truly,
I wish you the best!
A full recovery!

One never knows.
Please, be careful.

Pete
asb

PM me if you wish.

Heading the ball in soccer is dangerous but the most dangerous part of soccer is going up to head a ball and hitting heads with an opposing player. The occasional header is not as bad as the head to head confrontation or the header drills where the players head the ball over and over as practice.

The studies show soccer players who routinely head the ball have a 10 point lower IQ than those who don't. They also see brain atrophy in soccer p[layer. Brain atrophy is when the brain shrinks.

BTW, You will never recover 100 percent. The statistics and many research studies prove it. The cumulative injury can be catastrophic. My last head bump was very mild. But, it changed my life forever. As my neurologist said. That bump happened after I had already used up all of the recover potential my brain had. Now, I can't drive. No visual or auditory short or immediate memory. No ability to multi-task.

My third concussion was heading a soccer ball when I was 15 yo. Now, I can get a concussion shaking my head "NO".

Been there, done that, won't do it again.

Mossimo,
Please listen to these gentlemen. You're too early in your life to do this to yourself. There have been many, many pro football (american style) players that have had to retire after 3 concussions. They were wearing helmets when they were hit. It is just to dangerous to allow yourself to be in a position where you are just naturally at higher risk.

My husband had a TBI one year ago. He had to wear a bicycle helmet for the first month at least. About 2 months after, as he was trying to get back to some activity, he bumped his head on something. I could see him regress with even a light bump. He gained ground back, then bumped his head lightly again. Again I could see him regress.

6 mos. or so after his initial injury he felt ready to resume some work. He owns a garage door repair company. His doctor advised him to wear a hard hat during work because even the impact of a screw hitting his head would be enough to cause further injury.

I hope we have all convinced you that soccer is not worth it, no matter how much you love the sport. Life throws enough head bumps at you as it is, and after so many concussions you are very, very vulnerable.

Please take care of yourself - especially your brain and your head!

Becky

I am now experiencing what you have once allready been through. I have hit my head lightly but repeateatly and am now 1 year with PCS.

I have also experienced the small knocks talked about here that sends you back into having symptoms. Scary when you think it might be small but new concussions.

I hit my head several times while snowboarding and right now I dont know if I ever will dare to get back on it.

What I want to say is this...(but first I think its great to hear that you got well after 1.5 year! Most people tell you that the most recovery you will do is in the 6 first months. This seems not always to be true. )

I know someone that had 1.5 years of hell and recovered well. He than around 6 months later hit his head bad in a skiing crash. He had concussionsymptoms for 2 weeks then he was fine!! No "relapse" of PCS!

I could not really believe him at first. I thought that the new concussion would send him even further in to the PCS-land.

BUT, he was lucky! Normally the brain gets more sensitive and you get worse consequences.

You have to find a balance. For me it has been focusing on more mental things instead of physical onces (hard when your a sporty guy). I still cannot keep off my skateboard however. Its a risk, but its one thing that makes me feel good and relaxed. I try to make it as safe as possible.

Relax and have the mindset that this new concussion doesnt to 100% guarantee you will get the PCS back!

My personal view after my own experiences is this: It is the worst to have two repeated hits in a short timespan and up to around 6 months between. Longer apart than that time it seems that the consequences of another one is not as bad (still BAD). Understand what I say in the right way! Not as you are ok to have another one just because its been more than 6 months.

There is no evidence of this beeing true other than my own experiences and the people I have been in contact with. Someone will hazzle me for writing this, but hopefully it gives you a positive feel. Think about my friend who took the last hit without getting back the PCS!!

Best regards and sorry for the somewhat unorganized writing.

Emil

rydellen is only speaking anecdotally. There has been extensive research since the early 1970's that shows that 100 percent recovery is a myth.

The person mentioned who had no "relapse" of PCS did have PCS. It is why he had concussion symptoms for two weeks. His skiing concussion may have been along a very different axis of force. If that is the case, he will now be very susceptible to a concussion on the axis of force from both prior concussions.

What I mean is this: If his first concussion was due to a hit to the forehead with a front to back motion, then that is the axis of force, front to back. If the skiing accident had a hit from side to side, that is a side to side axis of force. There are also rotational forces that cause concussion.

The direct of the hit does not mean that there is only damage along that direction. Many concussions jar the corpus colusum in the center of the brain. It is much more prone to damage no matter what direction the force is. Then there is the most common injury of diffuse axonal injury. This is a stretching and tearing of the axons, the very thin wires that connect the neurons.

The sports industry tries to say that after a certain amount of time, based on the post concussion symptoms, that return to play is acceptable. This is a lie based on two objective. The coaches want to get the player back on the field and the insurance companies want to avoid liability by repeating the lie that previous concussion was healed. By doing this, they dump the responsibility for future injuries on the player.

When the player tries to perform under stress, especially emotional and mental stress, his PCS symptoms will be more prone to manifesting.

I have been knocked out only once. I have had many concussions since but never had "concussion symptoms" last more than a few hours. I have never felt nauseous, rarely felt dizzy, only felt disoriented once, but I have had the common symptom of a concussion that I get that is a metallic taste in my mouth and the feeling I have been punched in the nose. Some have never noticed the metallic taste or the feeling of being punched in the nose, but it is recognized in some of the literature. I have had a total of 13 concussions, most of which were very mild. I can now get a concussion shaking my head NO.

But... the long term deficits such as memory skills, multi-step processing, multi-tasking, and other cognitive functions can come and go without much to identify as a trigger.

The problem with PCS is the lack of good diagnostic criteria. Just feeling good is not a 100 percent recovery. The mental fatigue factors are not usually evident except under the proper testing. Changes in personality are not notice by the subject. Loss of judgment skills can cloud the ability to recognize ongoing symptoms.

Plus, everybody is different.

Chances are that none of you will ever win the lottery. But somebody always does, even if it takes a few drawings.

If you chance of death from a head injury is 1 in 100,000, (0.00001 percent) it is still 100 percent for the one who died.

That is why the states require you to care insurance to operate a car.

So, after a first or even second concussion, what is the risk of another worth to you.

I had to stop driving at 46 years old. I love to snow ski, hunt, fish and other outdoor things. But now I am entirely dependent on someone driving me to the ski area that I can see from my front porch.

Is another concussion worth the risk?

Mark;

Why is there not advanced testing in this realm of the brain and its workings.My Dr.told me when he was in med school there was a guy with 1/2 his brain.They were not told of this just visited him at first and he seemed normal in every way.Once they got the facts they were given a q@a test toward the patient and he was lacking as you would think in some fields.He looked acted perfectly normal on the exterior.

It seems like they have several answers but not all by any means.The mystery of the human brain is still greatly under studied and unknown.This is what the reason must be toward complete diagnosis,and liability in the insurance world...

I know someone with half a brain. It is the result of a hemispherectomy, usually done for intractable epilepsy. My friend had it done for just such a reason when he was in elementary school. The first hemispherectomy was done by Dr Ben Carson about 25 years ago. The other hemisphere can take over many of the functions.

The problem with good PCS and mTBI diagnostics is based on money. There is not a financial advantage to a good diagnosis. The pharmaceutical companies cannot sell drugs for brain injuries since none exist. There is a very good diagnostic tool called QEEG. It uses a computer to sample EEG brain wave data with millisecond resolution. Most EEGs are visually interpreted at a macro scale. Problem with QEEG is an idiot neurologist wrote and scathing article against QEEG back in 1997 that has been used by insurance companies to refute the validity of QEEG diagnostics ever since. That article has been soundly refuted by many peer reviewed articles but it is still held as valid in many circles.

The Veterans Administration has done some more research but the validity of the QEEG has not spread. The vast majority of Neuro-psychologists tend to discredit QEEG. They like to have the final word with their neuropsychological assessments.

There are other tests that are valid too, such a fMRI, functional MRI, and Diffusion Tensored Imaging, a MRI derivative. These are expensive and rare, usually just in research facilities presently. fMRI is quickly becoming more common.

In my research and experience, the QEEG has the most value in diagnostics. There are databases of over 10,000 subjects to compare results to. I have had it done 4 times. The neurologist reading the results could tell me what I was experiencing without knowing my symptoms. That is a very objective test result. Even his QEEG tech could tell me what was happening in my brain. BTW. The QEEG tech had previously had a double lobe-ectomy. He had an invasive tumor removed with two lobes involved. He went on to get a bachelor's and master's degree with only two thirds of his brain left.

The important part of lobe-ectomies is that they no longer get in the way of the rest of the brain by sending out erroneous signals. The healthy lobes can now rewire to take over for the missing parts.

In PCS and many mTBI's, the damage is more global, effecting most areas of the brain. This weakness prevents most or all lobes from functioning at a full level. When the damage effects the corpus colosum, it is like the telephone company having a flood at the main switching station. The signals may come into the switch fine but cannot get past the switch properly to go on to the other areas. This is a common PCS issue.

To Mark

I intended just to give hope to the guy that he might not have to deal with PCS after this hit. He have to understand himself from having PCS for 1.5 year that he cant hit his head again. That is worth saying!

I definetly agree with you that the neurologists does not understand how the brain is affected from concussions and therefor shouldnt give out information they cant prove. But at the samt time there is still no proof that a small bump or as you say "shaking your head" can do any harm to your brain.

I HAVE however experienced the "concussed" feel after a small hit myself, and even more intense headaches lasting a week! Something happened during the slight knock that make you have more symtoms.

BUT, we cant be sure that it damages the brain. One thing to strengten that standpoint is that the small force from a light bump is not enough to make the brain hit the cranium. But maybe the brain can get damaged without this happening.

OR, what if the "suspension/intercranial fluids etc" is damaged which makes it easier for the brain to hit the cranium?

I DONT dismiss your experiences Mark! I just want to start a discussion.

Emil from Sweden

There have been many studies that show that impact force has nothing to do with brain damage. The inside of the cranium also does not always come into play to cause damage. The damage to the corpus colosum is never caused by an impact against the cranium since the corpus colosum is in the middle of the brain. Diffuse axonal injury is tearing from the movement of the axons, not impact of the axons.

The idea that a concussion is caused by the brain hitting the bony protuberances of the inside of the cranium has validity, but only regarding those types of injuries. There are many other ways the brain matter can be damaged.

If a mild bump causes symptoms, then the brain has been injured. The brain does not have symptoms without an outside force effecting it.

There are plenty who claim that since they cannot image the damage, then there is no damage. That is like saying that if a tree falls in the forest and no body is there to hear it, that it does not make a sound.

When MRI technology allows us to see individual brain cells, especially axons, and neurons, then we will have evidence one way or the other. Diffusion Tensored MRI will possibly do this some day as it can image the interaction between cells.

There are many unexplained phenomenon in the human body. The brain holds many of them. Alzheimer's, ALS, MS and many other neurological ailments still baffle the scientists. But we know that AD, ALS, and MS do exist.

Some doctors have an attitude that if they can't image it, it does not exist. Only a dozen humans have seen the back side of the moon, but we all agree that it exists.

Maybe when doctors decide that they are not God, they will believe our symptoms.