*edit*

I think its easy to think that way.
Thanks for the advice. I don't know if I'll hate them like I do the people at the hospital but I will definitely appreciate.

I mean it sounds like of course the Scientologists are going to be bad because I am bad. But I hope not everyone thinks that way just because I am new and I throw in the word "Scientology." Its like thinking the Dalai Lama is bad.

He's not really bad and he's not really good.

Yes, in some sense he's what we make of him but this doesn't go beyond our personal speculation and superstition.

I think the hospital respected Scientology and he seemed to be an okay guy. *edit*. It just so happened this one was there and could be a witness to the atrocities done to me. Not that I have any care, of course. What matters most is others.

For example, if someone's opinion is very strong, sometimes it is better to let them win. Like the Scientologists for example. But it does make me stronger having the Scientologist on my side.

Thats just the way it goes.

I, however, didn't turn to religion for the answer to my battles in the hospital. I knew it was a business issue and I treated it as such. So I get along better with the psychiatrist as a result.

If you think badly about anything, usually it won't help. I never knew the guy was a scientologist when I prayed for him. My prayer is that all sentient beings may find ultimate enlightenment and temporary happiness. Whether you have to take medication it does not matter. It all depends on what makes people happy and is of most benefit to them and their journey. Does that make sense?

So in the community there are certain things I have to do. By supporting one another we get to a better place and learn to go on the journey. I don't want to hate Scientology. They have never done anything against me. They have never locked me up and abused me. I can only speak in "I" statements. Because all we have is our own opinion. Like I said, Scientology is neither good nor bad. *edit*
You should consult your Doctor before taking a drug that could kill you. I didn't get the chance. It was all a lie.

But I don't let it get to me. I remember, for example, one of the not social workers...but ummm, disability rights ladies that worked at the hospital. She said she felt weird working in a place that takes peoples rights away while she is trying to get them back. Thats sort of the way I feel having to take medication and be in the community but still having gone through what I have gone through and be an example. I can only speak for myself.

But this is not a religious forum so let's put the issue aside I was only referring to him for the sake of better understanding my plight in relationship to psychiatry and the role Scientology has in it in regards. I think that one of the qualities of a good student is that they are open minded. If you always think you are right and the other is wrong then that is bias or prejudice and not good.

When we are prejudice it doesn't matter what other people think we will do whatever we want. We can't live in a society like that. It would be utter chaos. Our society and government is built on the idea that we are all created equal and that we should share the burden.

I also met a Muslim in there. +

I also met a Christian.

I also met a Buddhist.

But what was most important was I always stayed the same. People think, you're going to change in the hospital. Yes, but it was me who actually changed by staying the same.

I think as long as you are on the right journey for yourself you don't have to worry. At first I thought this board was going to be very hard to deal with but I learned over a course of a few days that it was just my ego. If you went to learn what Scientology teaches you or I would probably realize the same thing.

It's not like we can condemn a religion like we are the governer or something.

I hope you don't think I'm a Scientologist just because I met a Scientologist. Its the same with Will Smith.

I think the real problem is people lack direction.

If you want spiritual direction you have to go to the Church. If anything I think that the best way to make change is through that avenue. But I guess they call Scientology a church, don't they!? What is my personal opinion on the subject? Opinions aren't worth a hill of beans. What really matters if you want to debate is someone sticking you with a needle a thousand times. See who gets angry first. Its fun.

Like I said I live in the present moment and my counselor thinks Im on the right path. The counselor is always right.

Just kidding. I think that if you have scientific evidence for a certain practice or profession then that legitimizes it. Scientology has their own professionalism. Psychiatry has its own professionalism. It is all based on the psyche though. The mind. If you don't understand the mind then what do you understand? Why is there a division between Church and state when they are both having to do with your mind? Good question. They say the mind and soul are different. But why is there a seperation...I went to the hospital and they had a Church there! We got to pray.

I don't see a real seperation. But I'm not a lobbyist.

The first thing I told the Muslim when I went in there was "these people are ****** up." And that proved true. But I am willing to take personal responsibility for the things that happen to me in life.

It seems like I'm trying to make them dissappear but its quite the opposite.

Well now that we know that the Scientologist is a witness you'd better get on him fast! No!!! You should be thinking, wow, isn't that great that someone was there to take note of your suffering. He really was a witness. A witness above the kind of diplomacy that goes on in thos prison hospitals. By the way, he had already won in court so he was very good witness.

Basically, there are two views. One of them is that the court decides everything: and if you believe that then the Scientologist is okay. The other is that there is a higher truth and then in that case the Scientologist is wrong. But the Scientologist is correct depending on the fact that he won in court and the court mandates who has to take medication and so on. This is basically what the psychologist in the hospital said. I won't say that the court decides because then I would be taking his remarks out of context. So that would be rude. Since the Scientologist believed in his Higher Truth, it does not contradict either of the two views, there being a court and there being a higher truth.

Just like here. There is what people say and there is a higher truth. You can't expect people to respond when you don't have any meaning.

Its just like a crazy person though who says something and it means something for him and only him. Because, he understands that noone is going to listen to him.

That is my defense.

No one is listening. Oh well.

But no, we want to force our ideas upon other people because we are not secure ourselves.

So we make up all sorts of things.

Then we have to justify them.

Isn't it fun?

But in the end the person who draws the gun is the person who gets shot.

At least if you think about the police

*edit* And the psychologists believe that your mind will go crazy!

The only one of those that actually imputes a result that is not similar to the cause is in the psychologist's standpoint. "Your mind will go crazy" So to elaborate. How the story goes is that you are ultimately the one responsible.

Either way, if you screw up you're going to suffer is the point. Regardless of your spiritual belief. Which religion is mostly just spirituality anyway today. I don't see a religion forum here at least. And most people will tell you its just spirituality and if you test them they don't know what they're talking about. The main idea should be if you do screw up not to suffer. So everyone has their own ways of dealing with that. But no one wants to suffer to get better.

Thats the real problem. You have to suffer to get better but you're already suffering so why not just keep suffering? It'll go away on its own won't it? That ain't gonna be happenin' brother!

You have to do something about it and it makes us all alike. We are all suffering and we all don't want to do anything about it. Thats my psychology.

So what I say is self-reflective wisdom. Like Dr. Phil, "how's it workin for ya?"

Then you will want to put an end to the continued suffering.

And you will also recognize that you are suffering.

Then you will want to cry or do something about it.

So I ask you, which will it be, cry or do something about it?

I will probably cry but not today. Today I am going to do something about it.

Thats a big step.

First, I'll remember my wish to take the medication for certain reasons. Then I'll meet with my friend who helps and then enter the community for health and wellness.

What are you doing?

All the time I'll know that at least I'm putting an end to the suffering. I finally stopped it! Recognizing this method is very useful. I will continue using it.

I statements please.

I feel sad that I didn't help the Scientologist.

I feel bad because now everyone thinks I am an enemy.

I feel happy because I was able to reflect on this.


Thanks again guys! You really threw me in the gutter this time. But I swam my way into the sewer where you can only drown me this time. But next time...

Stardate 2132 sewer worm to scotty: beam me up!

hahhahahah (clap)

I got to see the new movie? IT was AWESOME!!!!

They thought even though I was with staff that I was a movie critic because the guy I work with used to do reviews for that kind of thing especially music. So I was in the car with him and it was really a cool feeling. He's a great guy. Everyone is cool once you get to know them. You just have to put your part in to be there for them. Then you can even love the crazy guy.

We're fortunate to be in a place and age where medicine is effective and you can love the crazy guy at the same time.

Does the medicine make him not crazy?

I'll leave that up to to decide.

Until next time...

Keep Posting Icons

correct, this is not a religious forum and so sorry but I have had to do some edits as per our guidelines. we need to respect the fact that there are members here of many and varied beliefs and philosophies
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1293

we do in fact have a Sanctuary for Spiritual Support forum on NeuroTalk and as stated in our guidelines However it should also be noted that forum is for prayer support and spiritual inspiration and *not* for religious debate
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum27.html

thanks

Thank you Chemar

I believe that TBI and PCS can cause PSTD. OR other things in
a persons life to change for good.

Mine sure has.

Donna

Raymond,

Absolutely! You should see a good PTSD therapist to try and resolve your PTSD. Scientists are currently finding that resolving PTSD issues in IRAQ veterans is also resolving their MTBI symptoms.

mhr4,

Where did you get the idea that "Scientists are currently finding that resolving PTSD issues in IRAQ veterans is also resolving their MTBI symptoms."

From my research, they have found that PTSD magnifies the symptoms of MTBI/PCS. It is like washing a wound (mtbi) with dirty water (PTSD) They have been trying to identify the MTBI symptoms as compared to the PTSD symptoms.

Resolving the PTSD may reduce the overlap and magnification of MTBI symptoms but it only resolves those symptoms caused or exacerbated by the PTSD.

The injuries our soldiers are coming home with are very different that those suffered here. Rarely do people in civil society have the multiple traumas, both to the brain and the psyche. Sometimes simultaneously.

I would be very careful in submitting to PTSD therapies. Some are very controversial and may be dangerous. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) may be the least risky. Light therapy, sometimes performed as Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) therapy has mixed reviews for treating PTSD.

Mark,

I am a member of many yahoo groups that focus on brain injury, rehabilitation for brain injury, neurofeedback, nutrition for brain injury, etc. There is a person, not sure if he is a doctor or not, who posts articles on one of those groups quite frequently, and he posted the article I mentioned on Iraq war vets and PCS related to PTSD. I would post it here, but to be honest, I'm too lazy to search through the archives to find it.

I am only aware of one form of PTSD therapy that can be dangerous for PCS. The other PTSD therapies are actually quit safe and very helpful for anyone who suffers from PTSD/PCS. When you have a chance, you should go back and conduct another search on PTSD therapies, I think you will find that there are many different forms that are extremely safe for the PCS population to do.

Just to let you know, Mark, that it seems you have a tendency to discredit or question a lot of what I post on here. You can rest assured that when I post something, I only do it because I have either experienced it myself, or I have done a lot of research on the subject. I, like you, have had many concussions in my life - a lot more than the 13 you have had. However, I, unlike you, have tried a lot of therapies and have learned from them what has worked and what hasn't. Actually, I have done so much therapy, and had it work, that I am now able to attend graduate school this fall. I don't know your situation and I'm not trying to discount what you are going through or what you have done in the past to rehabilitate yourself. However, please realize that I do know what I am talking about and instead of jumping on here and contradicting nearly everything that I post, you should try to learn something from my posts, as I have learned from your posts.

Thanks!

Could not there be aspects of both?
Perhaps someone who has experienced a traumatic brain injury-concussion, might also show signs of PTSD????
Certainly, you have seen a neurologist and would keep up with good medical care.
But, at some point, you might have to seek mental health assistance as well.
I agree, a huge problem for one, might be a small problem for another.
Perhaps the way a person was brought up is an influence. Perhaps they don't have strong coping mechanisms. Or perhaps they don't have good coping mechanisms for certain types of situations. This is nothing to be ashamed of in the least.
The important thing, is to get assistance. That is what I think is healthy to do when we recognize that we are stuck...get helpl..make changes....move forward as best as we are able...
If you have not explored the possibility of therapy for you as of of yet, I would look into it.
I too like CBT therapy...but prefer therapists who are somewhat "directive," in their orientation.
You might look into books on spiritual growth...a topic of interest to you and one that no doubt you sense will be of help. Go with it.
Wishing you well.

mhr4,

What I have been trying to say is, If you are going to make controversial statements, quote a source. I have followed the work done on PCS and PTSD for years. It has been extensively researched at the Bay Pines Veterans Administration Hospital. Robert Thatcher, Ph.D. has been a lead researcher and computerized EEG evaluator and report writer for Traumatic Brain Injured (TBI) patients as part of the Department of Defense and Veterans Head Injury Program (DVHIP).

There are lots of anecdotal comments about PCS and PTSD. As I said before, there can be a big overlap of symptoms between the two. Psychologists tend to claim that their therapies can cure PCS and PTSD. The scientific studies are the proof, not the anecdotal comments.

I have been evaluated many times by different specialties. Few have offered any therapies to improve my condition. Those therapies offered have been limited to the mind exercises I have been doing since 1971.

The therapies for PTSD, as I said, can be very controversial. The issue of importance is the specific symptoms of PTSD. Yes, some symptoms may be readily treatable, others, not so much.

The problem with this tread "Can a life changing injury be linked to PTSD?" is it has no value. PTSD is not treated based on its causation. It is treated for it symptoms. The causation treatment needs to be done prophilactically, at the time of the traumatic stress, not after the PTSD has manifest for weeks or months. It is called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because it manifests after the traumatic stress. It is caused by a failure to resolve the traumatic stress in the mind and emotions of the subject in a timely manner.

One of the key problems with sustained symptoms of PCS is the stress the patient brings on themselves as a result of poor evaluation, treatment, and comments from the medical community. There is far too much, "Just relax, it WILL heal over time." Although this may be true for 95+ percent of PCS patients, it only compounds the problems of the long term PCS patient.

Yes, there are some therapies that can be effective as a shotgun approach to PTSD. It depends on the patient, etc.

I just did a fresh search for new articles. It appears that some in the research community are trying to morph PTSD and PCS together. This may be how the claim of treating PTSD results in improvement of PCS. The 'old school' definition of PCS has it standing alone, free from the emotional stresses that accompany PTSD.

The other possibility of improvement may be coincidental or synergistic. Normal life stresses are know to hamper recover from PCS and PTSD. If the patient is treated for the PTSD symptoms, the resultant lowering of life stresses may appear to help with the PCS symptoms. But, simply lowering life stresses can also help PCS in a non-PTSD patient.

It is well understood that PTSD and PCS have a magnifying effect on the symptoms of each. So, does lowering the symptoms of PTSD directly effect the PCS or does it just remove the multiplying factor from the symptoms?

If the PCS symptom level is 10 and after therapy for PTSD, it is only 3, did the PTSD resolve the PCS symptoms? Or would the PCS symptoms have been at a 3 level if the PTSD was not present?

The problem is the poor analysis methodology. I am amazed at the weakness of the methodology in some of the studies. Even more is the 'claims' made anecdotally by alternative therapy adherents. Yes, alternative therapies can be effective, but unless they are properly studied, they are just alternative therapies.

They become main stream therapies when the studies are properly done and published for peer review. QEEG has been studied extensively and been scientifically proven to be a viable diagnostic tool with rehabilitative therapies that also have great track records. But a few articles critical of QEEG have poisoned the field of QEEG so as to keep it out of the mainstream.

PTSD and PCS together have not even been studied until after soldier returning from Iraq reached a 'critical mass' worth studying.

I have had three psychologists say that my PCS symptoms are only stress related. Yet, neither has provided any support to their diagnosis. Four QEEG evaluations have said exactly the opposite. They show physiological injury as the causation of my symptoms. I find it odd that my symptoms match those described back in 1978 by one of the first researchers in PCS yet some physicians and psychologists claim I am just a psych patient.

One of the ways of validating research is the predictive method. If the symptoms can be predicted based on injury and medical history, then the diagnostic conclusions are valid.

In my case, one doctor predicted an increase in symptoms at high altitudes. This was shown to be true because I had to quite flying as a private pilot because I would suffer mental confusion, etc after prolonged times at 8 to 12 thousand feet altitude. The altitude problems manifest 20 years before I learned of the connection to PCS.
Another symptoms predicted is auditory processing. The neurologist told me that my brain gets overloaded with auditory stimuli. He asked how I handle it. He did not know that auditory over-stimulation was one of my worst symptoms as he does not look as the specific symptom complaints before evaluating the test results. This was an perfect example of predictive validation. I could go on but I think you should get the point.

These same predictive methods of validating diagnostic tools and therapies are not presented in many of the anecdotal reports of success.

In my case, I was diagnosed with PTSD (1997 traumatic event) before my most recent head injury (2001) and 18 months after a previous concussion. Most of the PTSD symptoms had been resolved prior to the 2001 injury. Only a few continue. My head injury magnified the few that continued. After some time, they resolved back to the pre-head injury state. Most of my 2001 PCS symptoms have not resolved, even though I have a history of great recoveries from my prior concussions.

My 13 concussions are the memorable concussions. I have had many more that are not so memorable. I can get a concussion riding a roller coaster, driving down a bumpy road, and even shaking my head No. I don't count those as memorable.

A head injury is a 'personal experience' we have similar issues, but each of us has our own specific issues; some more trying than others, but issues never the less.

I enjoyed reading though I didn't understand/comprehend a lot of what you all have said obviously you are all extremely intelligent and knowledgeable.

Thanks for all's input!

Melek

Mark,

First, I would like to post a link to the research I have read, but unfortunately I can't until I post a pre-requisite number of times. Once I surpass that number, I will begin posting links to my sources.

Can you please list exactly which PTSD therapies you consider to be controversial?

Thanks.