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Old 09-28-2006, 08:50 PM   #1
Jeanc
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Arrow Tips for Newcomers to TN Forum

Welcome to the Trigeminal Neuralgia (TN) Forum,

[Please use this thread to post useful tips for newcomers with TN or related neuropathic facial pain. If you are a newcomer ("newbie"), please don't post your questions or introduction in this thread. After reading through this thread and the Useful Sites sticky at the top of the forum page, please start a new thread introducing yourself and asking any questions you still have. Thank you and welcome!]

We always start our first posts to newcomers with a welcome and, though we're sorry you're here because it means you're in pain and/or have just been diagnosed with TN or one of its variations, we're glad you found us because you'll find a wealth of information, support, and understanding here and most of all - you'll realize you're not alone.

Please don't ask questions in this thread - please start a new thread with your introduction and questions.

The first thing to do is to visit the Trigeminal Neuralgia Association (TNA) Website at the following link (click on the line below to bring up the TNA home page in a new window)-

tna-support.org

There's a menu on the left of the page that can take you to a LOT of information. Read "About TN," so you know what TN is, and then you can order the book Striking Back! The Trigeminal Neuralgia and Face Pain Handbook by George Weigel (former TN sufferer) and Ken Casey, M.D., a neurosurgeon who specializes in treating face pain. You can order it by calling the TNA at 800-923-3608 or 352-331-7009 or online at the TNA Store link below. It's also sold online by Amazon.com and Borders, but be sure you're getting the 2004 edition (528 pages) of The Trigeminal Neuralgia and Face Pain Handbook.

https://www.tna-support.org/newlook/...literature.htm

(NOTE: Be careful if you order from other than the TNA as there are a number of books with "Striking Back" in the beginning of the title and the old 2000 edition is still available used, but it's only half the info.)

This book is a MUST READ for anyone with neuropathic facial pain. It was updated in 2004 and doubled in size and the information is invaluable. It's $24.95 (US) + S&H as of this writing.

The TNA also maintains a Patient Registry where they gather data on TN and related facial pain. Please visit the Patient Registry and fill out the form electronically or print it out and send it in. There's a Support Group area where you can download lists of Support Groups and Telephone contacts (for US, Canada, UK, Australia and a number of other countries). You can call the 800 numbers in the Contact Info for help in finding TN-literate doctors, neuros, dentists, info about TN.

Be sure to visit the Useful Sites sticky thread. That has all kinds of information in it about treatments, doctors, tutorials, etc. and many of those threads may help answer your initial questions. A few websites that are especially good for newbies that describe TN and its treatments (medical and surgical) are -

http://www.umanitoba.ca/cranial_nerv.../tutorial.html

Be sure to check out the interactive tutorial and the complete guide to TN in the site above.

http://www.uscneurosurgery.com/Disor...euralgia1.html

http://facial-neuralgia.org/

Once you've read through some of the introductory websites above, then start a new thread introducing yourself to the family here, tell us your story and ask whatever questions you still have. You'll find lots of help and support here so welcome to the family.
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Old 09-28-2006, 08:52 PM   #2
Jeanc
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Default Start a Pain Diary; get a neuro

If you haven't already, start a Pain Diary with a history of your pain and a daily log of your pain - description of the pain (sharp, dull, aching, stabbing, shock-like, throbbing, burning, etc.), intensity on a scale of 1-10, length of time the pain lasts, how often it strikes or if it is constant, and so on. Also, what medications you have tried, are currently on, times and doses, side effects, whether they work and how well, etc. Also record doctor visits, questions and answers, diagnoses, treatments, etc. TN is diagnosed mainly by extensive patient history and description of pain and eliminating other conditions with similar symptoms. There is no test or exam that can determine TN, unless a vascular compression of the Trigeminal Nerve ganglion happens to show on one of the newer, more sophisticated MRIs (thin cut, 3D with contrast, fiesta, ... even these may fail to show a compression that does show up during a Microvascular Decompression (MVD) surgery). "Regular" MRIs are generally used to eliminate other causes of neuralgia such as tumors or MS lesions and rarely show a compression.

If you don't have a neurologist yet, try to find one who specializes in TN or at least has experience in treating it - recent experience. It's a rare condition so experiened neuros are hard to find especially if you don't live near a major city or hospital, but it's critical that you find someone who knows about TN and current treatments. There are a number of meds to try - some new ones with fewer side effects - but they don't all work for everyone and you need to find someone who will work with you to get the best relief, not just throw a script at you and send you on your way, or insist you're too young to have TN because you're under 50. The many posters to this (TN) Forum had their first TN-type pain between 20 and 50 years of age (we have one who was diagnosed at 3 years old). Some may have gone years before they were diagnosed because it is so rare and many doctors, dentists, even neuros have never seen even one case.
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:07 PM   #3
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Default Tegretol

Tegretol is a very strong medication but it often works for TN pain. I lived on Tegretol for 13 years. I started at 200mg a day and by the time I was through I was up to 1200mg a day.

None of the anti-convulsant drugs work overnight. Tegretol is a drug that needs to reach a therapeutic level in your bloodstream to be effective. That could take a week or two. Every time you increase the dose chances are you will have side effects. I remember having to hang on to the wall to walk. I couldn't stand, I was dizzy, I couldn't drive or work and I slept and slept. Those side effects diminish as your body adjusts to the medication. It could take a couple of weeks for the adjustment of each increased dose.

As long as you are not having an allergic reaction i would try to persevere through those nasty side effects so that you can reach a therapeutic level. Don't get me wrong, the side effects never completely go away, but they do become manageable. I remained more tired than usual and I often found it caused forgetfulness. I've heard it nicknamed "the stupid drug" because that's how you feel when you are on it. All of a sudden simple words go missing from your vocabulary. I opted for an MVD because I couldnt handle the side effects and the pain any longer. But I was on 1200 mg. which is close to the end of the line for that drug.

If the drug is causing headaches, try to see if some Extra Strength Tylenol will help get through the first week or so of adjustment. You can check with your doctor just to make sure that this is OK, but I never had a problem mixing Tylenol or Advil with Tegretol.

It is important to get a blood test every three months while on this drug. Tegretol is metabolized in the liver and therefore liver functions need to be checked. They also check for theraputic levels amongst other things.

Many drugs may affect the way that Tegretol is metabolized in the body, leading to higher or lower than expected levels of the medication in the blood. Talk to your doctor before taking any other medicines or even vitamins while taking Tegretol.

Tegretol may decrease the effectiveness of birth control pills. Alcohol and Tegretol are not a good combination either, as well, this is one of those drugs where mixing grapefruit and grapefruit juice with Tegretol could lead to potentially adverse effects.

There are many other drugs on the market today that handle TN however Tegretol still is one of the most commonly used drugs. Most of the drugs are anti-convulsants but some doctors use other types of drugs like anti-depressants as well.

It is important to realize that everyone is different, what works well for one of us does not necessarily work for someone else. Sometimes there needs to be a delicate balance reached between a cocktail of the different drugs. It is a difficult road for some of us to travel and you are in pain the whole time you are experimenting with the different drugs. It is important to hang in there and stay in touch with your doctor to let them know how you are reacting (sometimes easier said than done) while you find the right drug(s) for you.
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:16 PM   #4
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Default Other Common Drugs

Dr. Anthony Kauffman is one of the leading neurosurgeons in Canada to deal with Trigeminal Neuralgia. He is part of the Univeristy of Manitoba and this drug information was taken from his web site.
Drug Information website

Some of the other popular drugs to treat TN are: Phenytoin (Dilantin), Oxycarbazepine (Trileptal), and Gabapentin (Neurontin). Phenytoin was first introduced in 1942, and in 1962 Carbamazepine (Tegretol) became the most commonly used drug. Baclofen (Lioresal) may add to the effectiveness of these drugs. Recently, Neurontin has been widely used because of reduced side effects, although is more expensive and somewhat less effective then Tegretol. The anti-convulsants are thought to reduce TN attacks by decreasing the hyperactivity of the trigeminal nerve nucleus in the brain stem.

Trileptal (Oxycarbazepine)

Trileptal, or oxycarbemazepine, is a form of Tegretol that is becoming more widely prescribed for a variety of conditions. It has recently been found to be effective for some patients with trigeminal neuralgia. Like Tegretol, it is an anti-seizure drug, but the side effects are less severe and less frequently experienced.

The dose usually begins at 300 mg twice a day and is gradually increased to achieve pain control. The maximum dose is 2400-3000 mg per day. Common side effects are nausea, vomiting, dizziness, fatigue and tremors. Less frequent symptoms are rash, respiratory infections, double vision, and changes in electrolytes in blood. If you have had an allergic reaction to Tegretol (carbemazepine), then you should not try Trileptal. As with other anti-seizure medications, increasing and decreasing the dose should be gradual.

Phenytoin (Dilantin)

Phenytoin relieves pain in over half of TN sufferers at doses of 300 to 500 mg, divided into three doses per day. Phenytoin may also be administered intravenously to treat severe exacerbations of TN. The maximum dose depends upon the severity of the side effects that are experienced with the drug. These dose-dependant side effects include nystagmus (rapid movements of the eye), ataxia (decreased coordination), dysarthria (speech difficulty), ophthalmoplegia (paralysis of eye movements) as well as drowsiness and mental confusion. Other effects of the medication may include gingival hyperplasia (enlargement of the gums in the mouth) and hypertrichosis (excessive hair growth). Rare but serious complications may occur, including allergic skin rashes, liver damage and blood disorders.

Baclofen (Lioresal)

Baclofen is not as effective as Tegretol or Dilantin for TN, but may be used in combination with these medications. The starting dose of baclophen is usually 5 mg two or three times a day, and may be gradually increased. The usual dosage taken for complete pain relief is between 50 and 60 mg per day. Baclofen has a short duration of function so sufferers with severe TN may need to take doses every 3 to 4 hours.

The most common side effects associated with baclofen include drowsiness, dizziness, nausea and leg weakness. The incidence of these side effects is reduced by starting with a low dose of baclophen that is gradually increased. However, approximately one tenth of sufferers cannot tolerate baclofen. A rare complication is a confusional state that appears shortly after baclofen is started, but this resolves quickly when therapy is stopped. Baclofen should not be discontinued abruptly after prolonged use because hallucinations or seizures may occur. If these withdrawal symptoms do occur, the previous dose of baclofen is usually re-instituted and then gradually reduced.

Gabapentin (Neurontin)

Gabapentin is an anti-epileptic drug that is structurally related to the neurotransmitter GABA. This drug is almost as effective as Tegretol but involves fewer side effects. The starting dose is usually 300mg three times a day and this is increased to a maximal dose. The most common adverse reactions include somnolence (sleepiness), ataxia (decreased coordination), fatigue, and nystagmus (rapid movements of the eye). There is no known interaction with Tegretol or Dilantin, permitting usage of these drugs in combination with Neurontin. As with all of these drugs, rapid discontinuation should be avoided as severe withdrawal reactions may occur.


So there you have it. A virtual smorgasbord of TN drugs...none to be taken lightly and none to be taken without the strict supervision of your physician. However this shows you that your options are not limited to the one drug your doctor may have subscribed. Like I mentioned in the previous post, it may take a while to experiment and find just the right therapeutic dose or combination to get you the relief you need.
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:44 PM   #5
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Default MVD Decision

There are a number of options available to you in case the medications do not work for you, or if you find the side effects unacceptable. Some of those options include Gamma Knife, Radiofrequency, Glycerol Injections, Balloon Compression & Microvascular Decompression (MVD) to mention a few. My knowledge is with the MVD. Hopefully one of the other people who have had these other procedures will write to let you know how these are done.

Before I start let me just say, no two people are alike, and what is right for one may not be right for someone else.

This is my story of how I decided to go for the MVD. I am 49 year old woman who struggled for 13 years with TN before I made my decision. In July 2005 I had an MVD. Today I am pain free and medication free.

If I had known then what I know now, I would have never lost that much of my precious life.

If even 1 doctor had the guts and honesty to tell me "this will never get better and will never go away"....
If even 1 doctor had told me "the meds will have to be increased to keep you pain free as your life goes on"....
If even 1 doctor had told me "you are a young woman and an MVD will give you your life back".
All these things are true, yet no one said them. I always was told, "If the drugs work, then stay on the drugs". Those drugs compromised my life for so many years.

I opted for the MVD over the other procedures because it is the only procedure available that does not destroy the nerve. All the other procedures work by damaging or destroying the nerve in some way to give you relief of pain. The pain of Trigeminal Neuralgia is usually caused by a vessel (artery/vein) beating on the nerve and thus wearing away the myelin sheath - which in turn causes the nerve to misfire after a stimulus to the trigger area. The myelin is critical in how the signals travel along the nerve fibers so if it's worn or gone, things go all haywire in transmission of touch signals and they end up being sent to the brain as jolts of pain instead of light touch. During an MVD the root of the TN is examined and all offending arteries and veins are padded off using Teflon pads. This frees the Trigeminal Nerve and in most cases the pain is gone but the nerve is left intact and unharmed.

MVD is the most invasive of all the surgeries. It is cranial surgery and is performed by making a small incision usually about 3-4 inches behind the ear. Then a small area of skull is removed. They say about the size of a quarter. The surgeon then uses his tools and expertise to remove any offending veins or arteries compressing the trigeminal nerve and padding it off.

MVD has the highest success rate of all the TN procedures. The percentages differ depending on which report you read, but I have seen anything between 92-98% success rate.

Here is what I’ve learned though. That general success rate means very little. The thing which is more important than the general statistics is the statistics of the surgeon you pick. Not all surgeons are equal and not all are necessarily very experienced in MVD surgery. The most important questions to ask your neurosurgeon are: How many of these surgeries have you preformed? What is your personal success rate and what do you consider to be a successful MVD? Some doctors will tell you “being pain free” and some will tell you a “reduction in your medication”. The bottom line is you want to have this done by the very best surgeon you can find. Travel if you have to, but don’t settle for a doctor that is conveniently located to you, unless he is the best. This is major surgery and in the hands of an inexperienced doctor and team you may not get the results you are hoping for. You want someone with many MVD procedures under their belt. My doctor had done over 300 (at the time) in the past few years and his success rate was 95% to be completely pain free. I interviewed about 6 neurosurgeons over the years before I chose this one. Once again I cannot stress enough, the importance of your surgeon. Don’t let the desperation of your situation guide you into making a quick decision.

You will have an MRI at some point to not only see if there is something compressing the nerve, but to also rule out things like MS, tumors etc. It is very difficult to see compression on an MRI, however through advancements in that field there is an MRI available called a 3D thin cut MRI. This type of MRI has a better chance of showing compression, but again many people do not show compression on any of the imaging. I am one of those people. I had the MVD without any compression showing anywhere. On the advice of my surgeon (whom I trusted) I had the surgery. 2 arteries and 1 vein looped around the Trigeminal nerve were found. None of this showed on the MRI.

MVD is most successful in people who have Typical TN. If you have Atypical TN, it can still be successful however you will have to discuss the success rate with your surgeon.

There are many emotions involved in any surgery and this one is no exception. All I will say about this is the weeks before the surgery were so much worse for me emotionally, than after the surgery. I was an absolute basket case. After reading many others' experiences with MVD I see now that I was not unique. In most cases the fear of the unknown is far worse than the recovery of the surgery.

When I was trying to make the decision to have the MVD I looked for all the information I could find. I wanted personal experiences, not just textbook information. I had a hard time finding much so I decided at that time I would keep a diary of my MVD from day 1 to 6 months post surgery. Here is a link to that diary. It was written in real time, not after the fact. I hope it helps some of you make your decisions and then through your recovery.
MVD Diary

The recovery from MVD was not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I was in ICU for 24 hours, then in a regular room for 2 days. Most of the uncomfortable surgical pain was diminished within 24 hours. The first day I was given Morphine, the 2nd day I went to Tylenol with Codeine and the last day in hospital I was only taking Extra Strength Tylenol to manage the pain. I stayed home for 3 weeks after the surgery before returning to my work, which is a desk job. If you have a job that requires more manual work you may want to wait a bit longer. Take your cues from how you feel and speak to your doctor. I was able to drive after 2 weeks, although turning my head to check the car's blind spot still hurt.

The incision is the last thing to heal and that can take a long time. Things like wearing glasses can be uncomfortable if the arm of the glasses sits on the incision. A small area behind your ear exactly where the incision is will be shaved. You can shower and wash your hair after a couple of days and my surgeon encouraged me to do that as it keeps the area clean. The staples come out after about 10-14 days and that takes less than a couple of minutes and is no big deal at all.

Here is a link to information that explains the procedure:
MVD Surgery

I know what you are going through now is just horrible. I wish you all the luck in the world on your journey to a decision that is right for you. I am on the forum regularly and am always available to answer any questions you may have. Please don’t hesitate to send me a PM (Private Message) or post a new thread. Good luck.
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Old 09-30-2006, 10:42 AM   #6
Bob_S
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Default Other options you might consider

1. topical ointments, patches, and nasal sprays (Capsaisin, lidocaine, &c)

2. vitamin supplements (B-vitamins especially B12, D, H, potassium)

3. herbal remedies (often contain small amounts of same substances)

4. diet, avoid:
- Salt & foods high in salt like prepared foods.
- Saturated fats, mostly from animal sources like meat, eggs and some vegetable oils.
- Sugars and foods high in sugar like candy, cakes, cookies, etc.
- Stimulants including coffee, carbonated beverages, caffeine, alcohol & cigarettes.

5. musculo-skeletal treatments (chiropractic, myotherapy, osteopathy) - works some for atypical neuralgias, but not classic TN

6. nerve stimulation/blocking (accupuncture, laser stim, TENS)

7. coping skills (self-hypnosis, counseling, stress management, pain management, support groups, &c)

8. Outlets for expression (give you back some kind of a life).

Degree, frequency, quality of pain, tolerance to pain, tolerance to medication, response to alternatives, and surgical probability for success are just some of the factors determining the right answer for you. Whether surgery, medication, alternate treatment or pain management, or a combination, the choice will be entirely personal. What ever helps you manage your pain to your tolerance level is worth pursuing.

Avoid high doses of medication that become as much a problem as the pain they control. Try supplementing medication with alternatives to reduce the amount of medication you have to take.

Attitude and outlook are just as more important as treatment. Don't forget to work on your attitude. Avoid feeling despondent or isolated; and, if you feel yourself slipping, don't be afraid to ask for help.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:41 PM   #7
cherylinfremont
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Help New member

Thanks for your help. I had a root canal 24 years ago and it always left a nervy feeling. In 1998 I had a severe whiplash. About 2 years ago I starting getting awful attacks of nerve pain. I saw several neurologists who put me on medication, it was Neurontin. I had to go off and was unable to function.
Well I saw your site and I am a member of TMA and read striking back.
I wanted to say hello and hope to find some releif here as I am unable to drive from the meds or even get out of bed on bad days, which happens often.

Cheryl~


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanc View Post
Welcome to the Trigeminal Neuralgia (TN) Forum,

[Please use this thread to post useful tips for newcomers with TN or related neuropathic facial pain. If you are a newcomer ("newbie"), please don't post your questions or introduction in this thread. After reading through this thread and the Useful Sites sticky at the top of the forum page, please start a new thread introducing yourself and asking any questions you still have. Thank you and welcome!]

We always start our first posts to newcomers with a welcome and, though we're sorry you're here because it means you're in pain and/or have just been diagnosed with TN or one of its variations, we're glad you found us because you'll find a wealth of information, support, and understanding here and most of all - you'll realize you're not alone.

Please don't ask questions in this thread - please start a new thread with your introduction and questions.

The first thing to do is to visit the Trigeminal Neuralgia Association (TNA) Website at the following link (click on the line below to bring up the TNA home page in a new window)-

tna-support.org

There's a menu on the left of the page that can take you to a LOT of information. Read "About TN," so you know what TN is, and then you can order the book Striking Back! The Trigeminal Neuralgia and Face Pain Handbook by George Weigel (former TN sufferer) and Ken Casey, M.D., a neurosurgeon who specializes in treating face pain. You can order it by calling the TNA at 800-923-3608 or 352-331-7009 or online at the TNA Store link below. It's also sold online by Amazon.com and Borders, but be sure you're getting the 2004 edition (528 pages) of The Trigeminal Neuralgia and Face Pain Handbook.

https://www.tna-support.org/newlook/...literature.htm

(NOTE: Be careful if you order from other than the TNA as there are a number of books with "Striking Back" in the beginning of the title and the old 2000 edition is still available used, but it's only half the info.)

This book is a MUST READ for anyone with neuropathic facial pain. It was updated in 2004 and doubled in size and the information is invaluable. It's $24.95 (US) + S&H as of this writing.

The TNA also maintains a Patient Registry where they gather data on TN and related facial pain. Please visit the Patient Registry and fill out the form electronically or print it out and send it in. There's a Support Group area where you can download lists of Support Groups and Telephone contacts (for US, Canada, UK, Australia and a number of other countries). You can call the 800 numbers in the Contact Info for help in finding TN-literate doctors, neuros, dentists, info about TN.

Be sure to visit the Useful Sites sticky thread. That has all kinds of information in it about treatments, doctors, tutorials, etc. and many of those threads may help answer your initial questions. A few websites that are especially good for newbies that describe TN and its treatments (medical and surgical) are -

http://www.umanitoba.ca/cranial_nerv.../tutorial.html

Be sure to check out the interactive tutorial and the complete guide to TN in the site above.

http://www.uscneurosurgery.com/Disor...euralgia1.html

http://facial-neuralgia.org/

Once you've read through some of the introductory websites above, then start a new thread introducing yourself to the family here, tell us your story and ask whatever questions you still have. You'll find lots of help and support here so welcome to the family.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:00 AM   #8
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I am 42 years old and have suffered with neck, jaw pain for about 10 years but until this last year did not have the jaw, nose pain. I have seen doctor after doctor with no luck of a diagnosis. Last weekend the pain was so severe we went to the ER. The doctor there diagnosed me within about 30 minutes of asking my history. Now it is finding out how to adjust and trying new medicine. the Muscle relaxer he gave me worked but made me real jittery and anxious. I am now trying another medicine my family doctor gave me. Hope it helps eventually. I don't know about continuing to work.The stress seems to make it worse. What do you suggest? angie
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:41 PM   #9
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Default Tips When Having Dental Work

This is directly copied from the TNA website

TNA Tips for Keeping Dental work as painless as possible:

Go to the dentist when you’re not hurting. Make sure your dentist knows you have TN so he or she will be flexible to schedule you appointments (maybe even on short notice) during periods when your pain goes into remission. This will also help the dental staff to understand in case you have to cancel in case TN pain flares up right before an appointment.

Be well medicated. If you don’t have remissions or must have dental work done during an active pain cycle, consult your doctor so you’re on an optimal dose of medicine. To prevent a breakthrough, your dentist may want to increase the dose of any TN medications you are taking for a day or so before and after the procedure. Also try to schedule your appointment during the time of day when you’re least likely to get pain or when your medication is at peak effectiveness (usually about one hour after taking a dose). Several hours before the procedure, take a pain-killing medication such as codeine. Take it again after the procedure. The goal is to have at least five hours after the procedure during which you’re pain free.

Topical anesthetics. Most dental patients need numbing compounds mainly for tooth repairs, crown work, extractions and the like. However, even teeth-cleaning and exams may bring on pain for facial pain patients. Topical sprays or gels can be used to temporarily numb the gums.
Touch the sensitive area last. If there’s a trigger zone that usually sets off the pain, ask the dentist or hygienist to examine and clean everything else first.

Switch local anesthetics. If you need treatment, discuss with your dentist the type of anesthetic to be used. Ask your dentist to use bupivicaine without epinephrine for the local anesthetic. Bupivicaine is long-acting, so you’re less likely to need multiple injections, which might increase the risk of pain. You may want to ask in advance, because the average dentist doesn’t keep this particular drug in stock.
Epinephrine is a vasoconstrictor; it’s sometimes added to local anesthetics to prolong their numbing effect. Epinephrine can trigger nerve pain.
Consider the injection point. Ask the dentist if possible to inject the local anesthetic at a site as far as possible from known, active TN trigger points.

A knockout. If all else fails and you absolutely need dental work, discuss the possibility of a general anesthetic (either IV or inhaled) to put you to sleep while the work is being done. This type of anesthesia can reduce emotional trauma.
---------------- ------------------- ------------ --------

Thank You Ella
PEACE
BMW
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:21 PM   #10
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Default tips and general info for new comers on posting...

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/fa...b3_board_usage

some of you come directly to the t.n. forum and may not know neurotalk has many other forums covering a wide array of illnesses and also some less serious, more social light heated forums . Just click the top left where it says " neurotalk support groups" and you will be brought to neurotalk"s index and there you can find the all other forums

If ANYONE has trouble or any questions about posting or finding their way around here just post here and I will help ,if I cant I will quickly as I can get help for you. this is a great place with many caring amazing people.
PEACE
BMW

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