have been taking a new magnesium chelate for the past 3 months my integrative medicine physician wanted me to try to get my mg level over 2.0

had increased my slow mag to 6/day and my mg level was still "stuck" between 2.0-2.1 even with Epsom lotion supplementation so d/c slowmag and tried 3 of these mg chelates/day

have a lab order for a mg blood draw and will let every one know the results once I get them and will reveal the name of this mg chelate

one pill of this mg chelate = 2x the elemental mg in Slow-Mag so we will see...have been taking 3 of these a day for 3 months now

price of this mg chelate is around $.07/pill so very reasonable

SlowMag is lower in elemental, but has a high absorption rate
to compensate for that.

If you are in the US.... try the magnesium lotion by Morton.
I get very good absorption with that compared to epsom salts.

http://www.amazon.com/Morton-Epsom-L...n+epsom+lotion

this is sold at WalMarts and Walgreens too. If applied to the wrists and inner arms, it will be absorbed thru that thinner skin in good amounts. I get very good absorption which keeps my blood pressure down, needing fewer BP drugs!

Apply a quarter's diameter to start once a day. Too much and you will get sleepy/tired side effects.

Mrs. D,
 

I recall some time ago your mentioning Kirkman Magneisium Sulfate Cream which the jar label also has on it (Topical Epsom Salt Preparation).

I did purchase this cream But seem to have the same type of effect that Sorbital has on many of us (messy BM's).

I am dealing with PN, but also have edema on both ankles legs (take 25mg's spironolactone daily). Also have Stasis Dermatatis on feet, ankles up to knees.
The Stasis is worst at the ankles. My Primary doctors is aware of the blood pooling at the ankles where it has darkened.

Along with the spine issues (fusion/laminectomy) which appears to add to the circulation issues, From what I read, the Mag Sulfate Cream can be beneficial.


I did try MS Cream over a month ago. Applied to ankles and top of feet. Put it on pretty lightly (label says put on 1 gram 1-4 times a day).I just applied once. Label Also mentions using on a larger area of body. The second time I used the MS Cream I applied it to the calves of both legs since there is more of an area with density of skin as well. This really seemed to relieve some of the burning; especially when I put it on the ankles.

But; after only using this twice, I experienced the effects (like a discussion we had some months ago) of the Sorbital effect. Very messy. I did stop using it, but since it also helps with the circulation and is useful in so many areas I am dealing with, would like to know if you have any ideas on how to better use this Cream. I really do not want to deal with the Epsom Salt baths.

Would appreciate any suggestions you may have.


Gerry

Magnesium is usually excreted by the kidneys. When taken orally it will remain in the bowel causing a loosening effect.

It is very odd that you are getting loosening from a topical product. The transdermal nature of the base may be carrying something else thru your skin.
Ingredients list here:
http://kirkmanlabs.com/ProductKirkma...mSulfateCream/
I don't know about all these ingredients in detail.

Or I wonder if you are using too much? If you only apply to one ankle and the next day to the other, that might work.

Or switch to the Morton brand. I have no problems with Morton's.
And I am very sensitive to GI loosening with all the oral products including the SlowMag. That Kirkman product was initially designed for children, and hence to be used in smaller amounts per application.

Morton Epsom lotion is only $5.95 at WalMart and online at Amazon. One 8 oz bottle lasts me 3months or longer.

If you have hereditary angioedema causing your swelling, you could have the GI form (like I do) and if so I'd get that checked out. Blood work for Complement #4 and C-1 inhibitor levels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C1-inhibitor.

It might be a good idea to email Kirkman with your question too, about their product and possible GI effects.

I bought some magnesium malate by source naturals. Is it essential to take it with calcium? I already take a multivitamin.

If you eat dairy... you may not need calcium.

People in the US can be very deficient in magnesium. (some studies show 70% of adults in US do not get the RDA for magnesium.

Not all magnesium in supplements is absorbed. It can be dependent on Vit D status as well. Alot can be excreted by the bowel.

I've had great results with magnesium malate, but I got the best results from applying magnesium oil on my skin (topically). If you read the book Transdermal Magnesium Therapy you'll learn that magnesium is much better absorbed through the skin, and doesn't cause any diarrhea that way

I take magnesium to combat my frequent and awful bouts with nighttime foot and leg cramping. Recently, I switched to 200 mg. magnesium chelate tablets (one tablet). That was potent compared to what I had been taking, so I cut it down to one-half tablet per day or approx. 50 mg.

Here's the problem: Frequent and large volume urination. It's really a struggle trying to dial this in.

Solution for now: Starting immediately, I'm cutting out everything except my Centrum Silver multi-vitamin. See if I can figure this out.

Any feedback would be welcome. :)


EDIT: I hope this isn't an "off-topic" or inappropriate post. When I wrote it, I thought it was a magnesium issue, so I put it here.

Hello everyone, this is quite an informative thread! It took a while for me to read through all of it, but it is really useful to have it all in one place.

I had been supplementing with 200 mg magnesium citrate in the a.m. for a couple of years, but after reading everything here, I recently upped my dosage to 400 mg, half in the morning and half at night. Right away I noticed a difference in my ability to walk. It is still quite impaired from my demyelination problem, but I am able to move a little steadier and a little faster, especially in the evenings.

mrsD, I have a couple of questions about dosages. Somewhere in this thread I believe you said that even well controlled diabetics can often be low in magnesium. I’ve had Type II for about 20 years and didn’t think I was low in it, since I do like sunflower seeds and other high magnesium foods, but apparently I was. Should I spread out my dosages throughout the day, say 100 mg 4 times a day, or am I better off staying with 200 mg twice per day? Or doesn’t it matter? I’m not sure if higher one-time doses would be better for trying to rebuild muscle strength or not.

Also, assuming I stay with 400 mg per day, would it be better to substitute say half of my magnesium citrate with magnesium malate? I remember you said that the malate form is useful for muscle strength, but I’m not sure I should stop taking the citrate form entirely since I know it is helping me. I’ve experimented with 200 vs. 400 mg doses of citrate, and I definitely walk a little better when the dose is increased. Thank you!!

I don't think the carrier of the magnesium is critical. I just draw the line at "aspartate" salts... as this may mess up the NMDA receptors which are pain receptors. (and of course Oxide does not ionize in the GI contents so is not absorbed).

Just do what works for you.

I would spread the magnesium out. There is no 100% absorption of this mineral, so overloading the lining of the intestines with high doses, may just shunt some off into the stool. Magnesium in any form in higher doses just acts as a saline laxative.

I really like the topical form best= Morton's Epsom lotion.

More on Magnesium. Thought I had posted this here, but I had it on a forum I had been on for many years, so found it:

This is from a VERY interesting important article on mag deficiency:

Personally I take upwards of 1000mg Mag Citrate, Malate, Glycinate separate and often mix them them. Split up doses which gets me about 1000mg per day. If one deals with LOOSE bowels, take less or to bowel tolerance.

Nearly EVERYONE has signs of magnesium deficiency but we don’t realize it…

*edit*
*snip & link for copyrighted articles..*

remember.... there is elemental dosing and total dosing.

1000mg of magnesium malate has 150mg of elemental magnesium, and the rest is the malate portion. (this is on the label of Puritan's malate version.)

This is true for all the combos with slightly varying elemental values. A good supplement will state on its label what the elemental value is. But many do not.

I have seen on the net that citrate is 16% elemental with up to 90% of that absorbed.

So if you take 1000mg of magnesium citrate, about 160mg is magnesium. This is about 1/2 the RDA for adults.

mrsD, should one be concerned about stress to the internal organs (for example, kidneys and liver) when it comes to processing magnesium, particularly in high amounts?

Thanks!

One needs good kidney functions to use high dose magnesium safely. The liver, not so much.

When one uses oral magnesium supplements, they usually get loose stools before reaching any toxic levels.

Babies and elderly using Fleets enemas, or the PhosoSoda laxative (which was taken off the market) can get toxic faster than people in mid range ages. Most of the poisonings happen to very old and very young patients.

When I researched this toxicity years ago I found very few reports of deaths in fact... under 20 per year.

This is a good link: about hypermagnesemia
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/246489-overview
But I can't find actual statistics right now for further examples.

mrsD, thank you for your very quick reply! I’ve been thinking about using topicals, and I may try the Morton’s Epsom lotion. I’ve gotten some relief from muscle twitches in my leg from using Aspercreme. I know this is an old product, but it has been effective in helping me with muscle inflammation.

NOW has a product called “magnesium citrate softgels” On the label, it says that the amount per serving is 400 mg of “magnesium (from magnesium citrate, magnesium glycinate and magnesium malate.” I’m assuming this product actually contains 400 mg of elemental magnesium. Is this correct?

Hi Caroline, thanks for re-posting your magnesium summary here. In addition to it helping my muscle strength, taking magnesium also helped me to eliminate a sometimes irregular heartbeat problem. In fact that’s why I initially began supplementing with magnesium in the first place.

I don't think so..... how big are the softgels? About an inch?
or smaller. The 1000mg magnesium malate tablets are humongous... almost an inch long. And in all that room is only 150mg of elemental.

Some labels really have confusing wording. If the word elemental is not there, I don't assume what is listed is referring to the mag portion. I called a maker once who listed several forms of mag in their product... and they could not tell me how much of each. I don't trust those mixes therefore...they buy the cheapest they can get.

The main reason magnesium oxide remains common today in supplements is that the magnesium portion is 40%.... elemental.
This allows for smaller tablets, easy to swallow. But no one for decades tested absorption, and so they are relatively useless now we know. Phillips uses it in its laxative product however.
The oxide form does not ionize (come apart) in the GI water filled tract... it remains insoluble, so does not get into the blood at all.

So the SIZE of the product can be a hint as to what is in it.
There can be a lot of tiny details people need to know to successfully use supplements.

Hi mrsD, here is a link to the product label:

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Magne...2&sr=null&ic=2

One 400 mg serving is the sum of three magnesium citrate softgels, so each softgel is about 133 mgs each. According to my ruler, one softgel is exactly one inch in length. I suppose than means there is probably much less than 133mg of elemental magnesium in each softgel.

Sounds like this is an elemental value. It is logical for a large capsule.

You know NOW is a great company... send them an email. I see their address on the label. ;)

And you can then share with them that not putting "elemental" on the label is confusing when others do that more today.

It is interesting to call them too, I've done that a few times in the past. (various places) I called Jarrow once, NatureMade once, and Perrigo once. (Perrigo is merging with another company soon or has already I think.) I've also complained mightily to Hershey's regarding their adding sorbitol to some of their candies (not dietetic). They sent me $9.00 in coupons which hubby used up. (I don't eat Hershey's products anymore as a protest).

I am currently using Jigsaw Health Magnesium with SRT. It works well for me. Though it isn't cheap. 4tabs daily providing 500mg mag as dimagnesium malate.

I just accessed the NOW website – perhaps I will send them an email to clarify the dosage of elemental magnesium. Thanks for the suggestion, mrsD.

Will I ever "get it" on the copyright issues....here is a good link on a lot of what I had printed and then it was deleted, hope this is OK to post:

pure-healing.net/2015/03/26/why-we-are-all-deficient-in-magnesium/
Mar 26, 2015 - Hardly anyone, especially doctors, notice that the ailments we suffer ... Nearly EVERYONE has signs of magnesium deficiency but we don't ...

Mrs. D,
I thank you very much for sharing your experience some time ago about the Sorbitol (the day or two before, I had a similar issue with Russell Stover Chocolates; checked ingredients...Sorbitol), I have been very careful to avoid anything with Sorbitol.

Now I am finding out the awful time I have been having with so many items containing Soy Lecithin. It is not as bad as the Sorbitol; but can get pretty nasty especially when listed a few times in the ingredients of many items.

The last few days have had been having a lot of messy messy issues. I decided to check the ingredients of the frozen Cheese Pops I had been eating which I purchased from Market Day....Some of the Ingredients includes as follows.....Soy Lecithin twice, Soybean Oil, as well as Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, then add to that; Potassium Sorbate.

Because of removal of rectum due to cancer (had enough muscle left so I do not have a bag), I guess this has especially made me more vulnerable to the nasty side effects.

It is so unfortunate that many foods; especially sweets which I so enjoy, have a list of ingredients that we are totally unaware of the side effects.


Gerry

Oh, yes... Russell Stover and Whitman's (both the same company)
put sorbitol in all their chocolates! I wonder if this is the reason they are going out of business? Selling off the company?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansol...e-giant-lindt/
Maybe the recipes will change?

For a short time I was buying the fancy tins to use to store my special pencils and brushes in, and those only show up for Xmas and Mother's Day. I'd portion out the candy but I was getting sick on just one or 2 here and there! Yep it was the sorbitol in them!

Another culprit---Hersheys has added this new emulsifier...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygly...olyricinoleate

It comes from castor oil.... which is a laxative! Doesn't bother hubby, but it does me!

Carob bean gum is another...and it is in creamed cheese, and some cottage cheeses!
The other gums like xanthum gum and guar seem less offensive in small amounts.

Most processed foods have these now...they are termed "natural" and they help improve flow and movement and mixing all thru the manufacturing process. They are FOS and as a form of polysaccharides feed various GI bacteria. This is what causes the diarrhea and gas.

I think people with GI upsets from FOS...should consider a FODMAPS diet...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP

Normal gut bacteria get really messed up with antibiotics, and this is one big cause of FODMAP I think.

If you have problems with inulin (not insulin) (the pastas sold as low calorie) that would point to needing a FODMAP diet.

Speaking of these additives, I buy SO Coconut Milk creamer.. I use mostly all coconut milk/oil products and recently the new containers of SO creamer have an announcement on the carton: We Heard You! Titanium Dioxide Free, Carrageenan Free

Good to see these changes from companies.

Back to the topic of magnesium :)

I did contact NOW Foods and spoke with a very nice and polite young man in their nutrition department. The conversation went something like this:

Audrey: Hello, on the label for your Magnesium Citrate 180 Softgels, does the 400 mg dosage refer to the amount of elemental magnesium?

NOW: Yes, ma’am, it is all elemental.

Audrey: Is that also true for all of your magnesium products?

NOW: Yes, ma’am, they all refer to elemental values.

Audrey: With all due respect, then why doesn’t it say “elemental” on the product labels?

NOW: That’s assumed, ma’am.

Well, that clears it up.... A S S U ME.... That is a military and FBI type word.

But we now know the NOW makes assumptions about the consumer?

It can be very interesting calling or emailing these manufacturers. They do write down things, and some even record the calls. "Your call is being monitored for quality control purposes".

”But we now know the NOW makes assumptions about the consumer? “

Well, the man from NOW also said that what is listed on the label for all NOW minerals is elemental, not just magnesium. I suppose they’re assuming this should also be intuitively obvious to the consumer. :)

I found this article last night on my phone...

It is pretty good...explaining the clinical symptoms of low magnesium.

http://www.activebeat.com/diet-nutri...um-deficiency/

This info hits close to home with me. A very good friend who is very alternative in healing and taught me a lot in all the years I've known her...has been thru some drama in the hospital and the dx is arrhythmia aka afib. I don't know how much mag she took, but nothing like the amount I take now for years. Having a lot of recent anxiety seems to have led up to this condition she now deals with. The recent anxiety she tells me felt like a lot of pins and needles thru her body... She is on 4-5 heart meds now and laying real low. So this brings me to thinking, had she been taking optimal mag for her body would she be dealing with this now. ummm Thanks for this good info.

I read the link with interest. Thank you.

Muscle camping is my constant nemesis. To what extent is dehydration a factor muscle cramping? I used to be a water abuser (diagnosed as idiopathic polydypsia*), but, even so, I began to experience muscle cramping in the two years prior to my SFN diagnosis.


*I never had polydypsia. I just drank too much water. Like an idiot.

Too much water dilutes out the electrolytes in the blood.
It may lead to low sodium levels and that is called hyponatremia.

This condition is very complex, with many variants, and so the symptoms of each may be slightly different. In its worst form hyponatremia may be fatal. Certain drugs like diuretics and SSRIs and some opiates tend to cause it too, and/or may be additive with excess water.

Important Article
 

Hi MrsD,

great article!
It's important to realize these potential symptoms of a magnesium deficiency.
Thank you!:hug:

To Our Healing,
DejaVu

I don't know if this link is on this thread, but I feel it's so valuable. Especially with heart health. My integrative MD has been on top of things with me as she has done Lipid Panels for the last couple yrs which found homocysteine and fibrinogen levels elevated....since working on these my levels are improving. So I'd like to add this link here as related to magnesium and more.

http://knowledgeofhealth.com/control...without-drugs/

Spent a couple hrs with two friends last night, both dealing with afib, and I found that neither one were taking sufficient magnesium over the years.. One friend just came out of hospital and now she believes she had a major panic attack while in there, they put her out for 1.5 days and ran tons of tests, and after 5 days in hospital they sent her home with 5 heart meds....she still has heart palps when she lays down for sleep. One thing they didn't send her home with was magnesium, that's how I'm seeing it.

Excellent info here too:

http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesi...heart-medicine

Still bringing info to my two friends, and reading more and more about the afib epidemic...and seems to be leading to magnesium deficiency. Found this book thru another health seeker, Artrial Fibrillation, Remineralize Your Heart. Read some reviews on it on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Atrial-Fibrill.../dp/B012IIVDHA

There are many causes for it.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20027014

bumping up for new members....

Bump.

Epsom lotion is getting a little expensive. Just made own my magnesium oil out of magnesium flakes.

following this:

http://wellnessmama.com/5804/make-yo...magnesium-oil/

Magnesium information (new):

Helps for mild to moderate depression:

Magnesium Shows Promise for Treating Mild-Moderate Depression | Psych Central News