OK. I was brave. I took the mag.

As it stands I only need to take 1 teaspoon once a day or at night.

In terms of the kegel exercises, I am not having any problems with my urine, however my doctor suggested as a result of a recent accident (back injury)that I needed to strengthen my abdominal muscles etc.

The funny thing. I have not done any exercises, lol. Still doing heat treatments.

Kick
 

Just giving this a nudge.

I just scanned through this thread and then looked at the label on the cal/mag product that we are using. It contains Mg Carbonate and Mag Hydroxide in a liquid form. Should I ditch it and buy a different product? I can't find much info on any of these forms of mag.

Thanks,
Laurie

Laurie,

I am not familiar with a product such as you describe. What is it called?

I have been taking Ionic-Fizz Magnesium Plus for two weeks now. I get this product at my local health food store. It is also readily available from the internet. I have a number of muscles in my neck, back, hips, and arms that have always been very hard and tight. With a lot of self-massage, most of them have gotten at least 50% better. I think in another two weeks, they will be pretty much normal.

sorry for being late....
 

back to this thread.

I'm looking around PubMed today for data on this and another question.

This is a newer paper than I quoted earlier:
This site give a graph showing absolute % content of some magnesium preparations:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp
You can see that inorganic salts have higher ratios, but according to some
testing being done, have lower absorption ranges.

Typically magnesium hydroxide is in Milk of Magnesia...typically it is not a good source of magnesium, as it is fundamentally a laxative. That means it remains in the GI tract and causes water to enter the gut and effect evacuation.

But people differ. Very constipated people do not mind, if some laxative actions occur. Sensitive people would be troubled by it.

If you have a positive response, feel better, etc..then you are probably getting enough for you. Relaxing muscles, less tension, and sleeping better are signs that magnesium is working for you.

I do like the Ionic Fizz too, but it does loosen me up if I use it every day.

There are also magnesium glycinate products. (not mentioned in the article above)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=7815675
Magnesium gluconate is available OTC as Magonate.

Here is an older article:
Here is a list of prescription drugs that should not be taken with magnesium hydroxide:
One should space these out 2-3 hrs before or after any magnesium product.

Thank you, Mrs. D. I will stick with the product that we are using since my son has not had any intestinal distress, and he doesn't mind taking it. I'm not sure if it is as effective as his previous Mag/Cal supps however, he is much more compliant with this. I'm also curious as to the effect of pH. I understand that Mg can be very alkaline. Can this have an adverse effect on digestion?

Laurie

as far as I understand....
 

It is the hydroxide and carbonate portion that is responsible for the
antacid effects. Not the magnesium portion.

Magnesium ions are complexing agents...bind with drugs to prevent absorption however. That is why I put up the interactions list.

It would depend on how much and how often the hydroxide type was given.
If only once a day, then the acid would return later.
Our stomachs work best acid. Proteins need acid for break down and so do other nutrients for absorption.

The other mag products do not neutralize acid the same way as far as I know.

Interaction
 

Mrs. D,
I've ordered the Ionic Fizz Magnesium, but I'm wondering if it will interfere with the Calcium/Vit.D absorbtion? And what would you recommend for the best Cal/D supplement. I need bone to be re-built very badly and want to take the very best supplements.

Thanks for being here.
Billye

I don't think
 

the Ionic Fizz will be a problem, with the other. However, they do state that it takes some time to build mag stores back up.

Since you already take a calcium supplement, you won't need the other
Ionic Fizz Calcium plus.

I saw muscle relaxation fairly quickly. But I can't take this every day, more than 5 in a row and I get loose...like with all mag products...sigh.

not a problem
 

Thanks Mrs. D,
The "looseness" :rolleyes: won't be a problem. Always have trouble there from the Sjogren's dryness. But I'm really glad to know it won't cause problems. I got it yesterday and it really tastes good. Thanks for the info, 'preciate it.

Billye:hug:

yes, I agree...
 

It does taste good. I was bit worried about the warm water part...since I don't like warm water...but it does taste quite good....for "medicine"....LOL:D
The powder seems very fine, so don't inhale while scooping it out...it is very easy to get up the nose I have found!:yikes:

I am reordering now some other things from iherb...so I am going to get the
bigger tub now and save money. I think this will be my predominate mag product from now on. (with SloMag to fill in the cracks when traveling etc).

wow hmm lots of reading
 

well since im new here, i just want to start off with saying I've done a lot of reading, as I've been to numerous other sites, including braintalk. I feel like im doing homework when reading all this stuff, but oh well, it helps in the end. Thanks for the magnesium suggestions, they are very helpful. Now I don't know if anyone has heard of this before, but I heard that calcium was possibly a useless drug, when used as a supplement. You know people take it for osteoporosis or bone less. But I heard that it was useless. As for vitamin D, I think that is very helpful. Now I read almost every single one of the posts on magnesium here, and.....

....as for the magnesium hydroxide and interacting with other medications like gabapentin, aspirin, and quinidine. I checked the drug interactions via drugs.com and they were listed as moderate interactions with aspirin and quinidine and a minor interaction with gabapentin in that it decreases the bioavailability of it. I looked that up especially since I take gabapentin for myoclonic jerks and insomnia. But I mean come on, I guess drugs.com is more of a pro-med site rather than a alternative herbal, natural hypochondriac(joking) type site, so I guess they wouldn't be that strict with interactions. I'm not saying that I'm pro-med or chastizing alternative herbal methods. I think there lies a good benefit one can get from combining treatments, meds, and vitamins. But I'm semi-biased as I had a real tough time with melatonin in that it worsened my depression/mental illness, nightmares, decreased blood flow, irritability, fatigue. Regardless have any of you heard of a more cautious drug interaction site, maybe one that integrates vitamins and herbs?

Taurine I guess helps muscle fatigue I read somewhere. I sometimes drink those energy drinks (which as u know got the taurine in them) because they have less caffeine per 8 oz than coffee does, energy drinks usually have around 80 mg. Which is good but im looking for something that has more than coke/pepsi(which hav around 40 mg) but less than say a redbull(again 80), i guess companies arent too precise oh well. I read that coffee has 135-145 mg caffeine and sometimes in nominations up to 170. no wonder why when I hav an iced coffee i feel like im gonna hav a seizure or something. geesh. on to my next subject potassium and magnesium.

I heard that potassium is good for myoclonus, so I bought a GNC magnesium and potassium aspartate that I take. is this a good magnesium supplement to take? I mean I may try slowmag, or that ionic fizz stuff if it isnt. also bananas are supposed to be good natural source for potassium, tryptophan, and melatonin which I read somewhere.

i take omega 3 fish oil also, but the GNC version has low EPA and DHA so no wonder it hasnt helped my depression that much.

with love and good health

Hi Bruegger,

Welcome. :)

Well done, doing the homework. Good for you.

I don't think calcium is "useless" from what I've read, it's just that the dairy lobby wants us to buy a lot more of this basically milk product than we match in our diets with magnesium...

I bought a newsletter years ago when I had money (ah, the good old days) that talked a lot about magnesium and how in other countries where people take less calcium in, they also have less osteoporosis, because in those countries they have a better balance of calcium to magnesium.

Without sufficient magnesium the calcium we take can be used by our bodies in ways that are not what we are hoping for, like bone spurs and headaches... I forget what else.

I have to go back and read your post again... I have impaired memory from a number of things, to include low B12 for too long.

Oh, that reminds me, magnesiIum is as hard to get out of food for our bodies to use as B12 is... so that's one reason people often are low in it...

I have a page on my site of the foods containing magnesium... but I better not post a link... I do a lot of links sometimes and it irritates people rather than making them feel they are helpful.

:)

*

I'm surprised (I just reread your post) about your reaction to the melatonin. Is that common?

Have you tried B12 for your depression? I found that after significant replacement therapy I no longer had symptoms of depression... and glad of it!

:)

Chemically speaking--
 

--calcium and magnesium tend to be atagonistic in terms of action; they are both "alkaline metals" that tend to form ionic rather than covalent bonds.

So, if one takes both of them, there is a tendency for them to compete for the available "raw" hydroxol and other negatively charged bodily ions.

This is why many knowledgable authorities have told people to take both, and at different times of day, to minimize competition and maximize absorbability. I have seen the ratio of 2:1 calcium:magnesium quoted often--as long as one is taking more bioavailable forms such as citrates and asparates (as opposed to oxides).

Vitamin D, magnesium, and calcium all act to promote bone health; potassium and phosphorous are important players there, too. And sodium (another alkali metal), magnesium, and potassium are all important as electrolytic factors in the conduction of nerve impulses. The standard Western diet has been very imbalanced, however, in favor of too much sodium, and sometimes too much calcium--I am not convinced that a lot of people are calcium deficient--and too little magnesium and potassium (yes, there does seem to be some evidence, especially from countries where lactose intolerance is common and where overages of calcium are less likely, that the goodly intake of magnesium helps stave off osteopenia). And--vitamin D deficiency if also common, especially as one moves up the latitudes.

Very interesting...

The book I had, which I think was called Secrets of Women's Health... but I'm too tired to go find it and look, said that you had to have magnesium with calcium... and I think that must be why so many calcium products have magnesium in them.

I always take a magnesium now whenever I have a food with calcium in it.

This has been working great, which I judge by the fact that when I had a bone density test, which the administrators appeared to be SURE would show I needed to use their drug, it showed that my bone density was REALLY good. The test administrators voiced surprise and of course congratulated me.

So that's why I always take magnesium with calcium now, and I try to avoid taking any calcium except in food.

:)

hey well it shod mention in my signature, that i do take vitamin b12, but i gotta take the methylco kind

Oh, hey, love LOVE your signature!!!!!!

:)

(in terms of the B12... not because of the health problems it suggests.)


Have you tried eating yogurt at all?
I read a long time ago when I used to have asthma that yogurt reduces symptoms by about 27% after three months of eating it.

I used to think it was the interferon in it... that may even be what the article I read said.

But now there's a lot of emphasis on probiotics... the good bacteria that are in yogurt and some capsules...
(the ones I take contain something like 5BILLION per capsule... :eek:
I don't have a fridge due to the reduced amount of electric I have using solar, so I get the probiotics now.)

I'd sure try the yogurt before I tried a more chemical solution...

(((((((((Bruegger))))))))))

i was thinking that it was the acidophilus in the yogurt that helps, but im trying to remember if i read somewhere else that astralagus helps people with asthma, but i could be wrong cuz it could have said acidophilus but i could hav confused it with astralagus.

Hi Bruegger,

:)

It's nice to see you post again. :)

No, I think you're right. I know that after having antibiotics people are supposed to have yogurt for the acidophilus...

What's astralagus????

(it sort of sounds like a dynamite day in ones horoscope...);)

yes, acidophilus is a probiotic in yoghurt

Astragalus is very good for the immune system etc and also helped me greatly when I was detoxing from pesticide poisoning

here is some good info on Astragalus at iherb

Hi Chemar, Thanks, that's going to be good reading.

Is all bacteria that's good for our digestive system called "probiotics" ?

:)

i love iherb i just bought som methyl there the other day and it came in like 2 days, i got some astralagus in my sobe drink the other day, i think its in nirvana and lizard fuel.

OMG, I just spent the longest time trying to find this thread.

I've been thinking about this since I first read it...

I went to the Astragulus iherb page and it was so hard for me to read, not "read" exactly, but "get". I just cannot remember things in boxes, it's as if when I go from the first box to the second everything from the first is wiped out by the line.

I don't understand why that is. But when I got an oil filled radiator some years ago it had the instructions in boxes and I just could not get it to work. It was really neat if you could get it to work because it would do different temperatures at different times. But the longer I couldn't set it the colder I got until finally I was shivering and crying and I had to take it back.

I think that's why I've written my site as I have... with everything running together like a story.

I can understand things in a story form much more easily.

I don't think I ever remember as much as I used to before I had the brain damage... but I can remember more when it's like a story and there's no stopping and starting...

Whew!

I am soooo glad I found this thread. I hope now that I've written this I can stop thinking about it... :)

(I suspect I'm going to start thinking about how I was listening to a court tape yesterday or this morning, I forget when I can't sleep, and the judge laughed when I talked about my disability. I was told he'd said there was "no way" I'd get my condo back. And that could well be true. Now that I have the court tape and the record proper I can see that the lawyer for Ocwen was lying. He was lying. It just amazes me that he would lie about things that are in the record proper and can be so easily checked by someone without brain damage.

I am so glad I am appealing. I sure hope the appeals court doesn't have the same attitude as the judge.)

My message a continuation of my post to MRS D
 

My post on magnesium a few clicks back was directed towards Mrs D, hopefully a response i will get.

I haven't seen MrsD in quite a while. Hope she's all right. Oh, I just went to another forum and see her posting. Hi MrsD! *waving*. I'm sure you'll get a response fairly soon from her. I had also lost track of this thread some time ago.

I thought I'd respond with a few things that might have some value added info.:

Re: mood swings and supplements:

You have to be really careful about the source I believe. I have the same issues with selenium that is yeast-based. It really starts me on that downward slope. I couldn't figure it out for the longest time and stopped taking it but kept the bottle. Finally, I was looking at the bottle one day looking for some small print about gluten (which always gets my mood swinging downward, even the tiniest amount will do it) when I realized that it was a yeast product.

Great info. about the taurine. Thanks. I'll have to look into that some more.

Bananas need to be carefully used because many people react to them with an 'oral allergy' that can be sneaky. I have that. All it means is that my mouth feels 'funny' after I eat a raw banana. However, if I cook it, the chemistry changes enough that I don't get that effect.

You can increase your omega 3 balance by changing where you get your meat and eggs. Grass-fed, free-range animals have a healthy 3/6 balance. Grain fed animals are high in 6 and low in 3. Also, grain fed animal meat is acid, free-range/grass fed animals are not acid. Beware though, a farmer who 'finishes' (last 6 weeks before slaughter) their meat with grain, reduces the omega 3 and acid levels. Try and find a farmer who feeds grass all the way through. Eggs that are high in omega 3 are easier to identify than meat because their yolk looks very orange compared to a regular, grain-fed egg that looks yellow.

Re: dairy:

Dairy gets my chest to tighten. Though it doesn't work against me as fiercely as gluten for asthma, it contributes... and so I steer clear of dairy and take a 5-strain dopholous instead of using yoghurt. Dairy also makes me phlegmy... which I really don't care for.

I missed the part of your quote where you are talking about trying slowmag. I know that MrsD used to be a big advocate of it. I can't find it here in Canada though. Here's a quote from her in another forum:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...6&postcount=15

Hello KimS and new member Bruegger!
 

I am freshly back now, with a dependable computer!

Thanks for the ideas Kim. (as always)

And Beuegger--- it is nice to meet you. I assume you are a male, by your avatar? It helps me to know the gender of the poster writing.

I posted a link to a good calcium post on another thread here at the top of the list-- check that out. It will answer your calcium questions well.

I am not a fan of GNC--- their prices are too steep for me. But if you like them, then don't let me dissuade you. For supplements, using potassium is rather useless since the FDA only allows max of 99mg/tablet. Since we need at least 3.5 grams or more a day, it is a waste of money. 1/2 of a cantaloupe has 1400 mg in it for comparison. The aspartate salts of supplements may be bad for anyone with neuro issues. Aspartic acid (aspartate) is a neuro-excitatory amino acid like glutamate. Wiser choices would be gluconate, citrate etc as I listed earlier in this thread.

The blood pressure you list on your siggy line is not really high. It is a borderline reading reflecting perhaps nervousness in the doctor's office known as white coat hypertension, or an excess of salt in your diet. (this is especially true of younger patients). People with chronic pain also may have elevated readings. So age is a factor with that.

When you surf the net there are many sites with drug interactions available.
But many are either incomplete, don't address everything possible, or do not have current data yet. Some of the bigger sites use a company to do that for them. Many pharmacies pay a fee to an outside place to provide the data for them. My experience is that they also do not have "everything"... for example, one place I used to use did not have accurate serotonin data on interactions between SSRIs and triptans (used for migraine).

Absorption interactions like the mag/gabapentin can often be worked around by timing intakes of either so they do not occur.

It is nice to see you here (both of you) and thanks for posting!

well yes im a male, this site seems to be neurology talk for women, since they even hav a separate forum for women's health. so you said that magnesium gluconate or magnesium citrate would be better choices? i was thinking of trying the ionic fizz stuff that u were talking about earlier, or maybe even the slowmag-even though im kind of turned off by anything containing a chloride type thing, like magnesium chloride.

about calcium: I think americans get more than enough of calcium through their diet, cuz it is high in cheese/dairy, even things u wouldnt think had cheese in it actually do.

im not really worried about my blood pressure, my heart rate was what worried me, as it was 115-120 resting, and possibly even higher under stress/social interactions. I have a litte social anxiety so that affects it. i dont hav that white coat hypertension.

im assuming ur not gonna name any sites for drug interaction checking for fear of getting the boot here at neurotalk. u dont hafta post a link maybe just names possibly.

Hello Bruegger84

we dont mind legitimate links to relevant sites here and certainly dont give members "the boot" for posting those.



what we ask members to be respectful on when linking is that within the guidelines
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1293

helpful links are always welcome, and if a member happens to post a link that isnt, it has a little edit, not a big boot :D

anyway, I know there are a number of links on the useful sites stickies to info on interactions

maybe the Natural Encyclopedia at iHerb can be of help in their section on Drug Interactions with Supplements

hope that helps
Cheri

ps Maybe a visit to our PD forum will also show you there's a lot more to us than "neurology talk for women" LOL:cool:

site suggestions...
 

I have some good ones on a Sticky on our Medications forum.

Like Chemar I like iherb's encyclopedia and they even have the German Commission E data, which is hard to find on the net.

Univ. of Maryland has an excellent Alternative section too.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/

Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State Univ. is also excellent.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/

NIH..is also good and pretty new:
http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/

Ionic Fizz is magnesium citrate formulated to dissolve quickly and be absorbed quickly.

SlowMag is magnesium chloride. Because it is an inorganic salt, the size of the tablet is lower--64mg.

I am always open to new formulations of magnesium, since I find them very laxative (I have a GI congenital problem that causes that for me).

There are many males on these forums. I only like to know gender and age because females have hormone issues that complicate things that males do not.

I can't find slowmag in Canada, but after talking to MrsD (a fairly long time ago) I switched to magnesium citrate and though I don't really notice a difference when I take it, I really *do* notice if I'm off it for too long... esp. if I consume mag. depleters like coffee. So, because I drink coffee on the weekends, I take my magnesium over the weekend and then for the first couple of days of the week. I've found that keeps me in good spirits with improved energy and no shaking. I've not had issue with bowels because of the citrate at all.

As for dairy and calcium, dairy (or any other food to which you are reacting) can cause malabsorption. If you're malabsorbing, then you'll have a harder time feeling better.

Foods that will get my mood coming down fast is gluten (#1: even miniscule amounts can affect my mood) and coffee (if I drink it for more than four days in a row... and four days is kind of pushing it).

So, I don't do any gluten at all... am quite freakish about it really after a couple of small errors left me fatigued, with joint pain, a migraine and depressed. And I really enjoy my coffee (which is fair trade, organic beans that I grind in my kitchen) so I keep it for a weekend treat.

My dairy is fairly limited because it causes mucous production and I get a bit of tightness in my chest (I didn't feel any of these symptoms, by the way, until I removed the foods for a time and then ate them again). So, mostly just holidays or special events... and even then, I make sure to keep it quite limited.

For calcium, it seems far more effective to make bone broth soup using cabbage as the acid to pull the calcium (and probably the magnesium) out of the bones. Here is a bunch of information I've collected. Please excuse the fact that it's not been proofed yet and so is not finished. The only reason I've got it on the web already is because so many people were asking for the information and though it's not pretty, the information is still valid and readable. I do list my sources and urge people to ask if it looks like I've missed listing one: Pecking Apart Chicken Soup

im sorry but i cant just put down my milk, as i hardly make alot of mucus anyways for some reason, i dont know if that is related to any type of illness-low mucus production, but i sure do sneeze from time to time-which I really enjoy for some reason- as I dont sneeze alot but when I do its kind of a release. wow or u can probably use lemon juice as the acid to get out the calcium magnesium for the bones.

ive recently purchased the ionic fizz and throughout the day Ive been drinking a large bottle of cold water(about a liter) with 2 capfuls of this stuff in it. I wonder how much hav u guys take a day? I feel like I can handle alot of this stuff, without getting loose. I love this fizz stuff it tastes great.

Hello Bruegger...
 

I suggest you read the directions on that jar of Ionic Fizz you bought.

It is to be mixed in warm water and after it completely dissolves, drunk all at once. If it is not used immediately it is to be refrigerated.
http://www.pureessencelabs.com/pdf/if_mag_supp.pdf

I would not use more than 2 scoops a day without doctor's supervision.
For many one scoop a day may be enough.

It does taste good, but you do not need to overdo it just because you like it.
You are not in a position to decide "how much you can handle"... this
statement is rather reckless IMO. Becoming "loose" is only one sign that magnesium is not being absorbed...you can still poison yourself if you don't get loose depending on your kidney functions.

When you decide to use ANY supplement you need to follow directions and understand what you are doing. That is why I provide links for you to read.(homework) So please do be careful.

right im ok i just had lapse in judgement, ive just read sites where people take 600 mg at one time and are fine. I def will follow the take it with warm water next time. and will not go over the recommended amount. but i do recall vitamin b12 not having any toxicity so I assume i can be more liberal with my vitamin b12 supplement.

Yes, you can be very liberal with methylcobalamin.

rose

bumping up...new study published...
 

I found this new study on PubMed recently...and it is time to bump up this thread anyway ;)

I found this interesting...but not unexpected. Magnesium + pyridoxine are both necessary for the proper conversion of essential fatty acids to long chain ones EPA and DHA. EPA then has anti-inflammatory effects on the body.

For humans I would not be keen on using aspartate salts. Aspartic acid is a neuroexcitatory amino acid like glutamate, and can raise pain levels. I don't know if that is true for rats. But the use of B6 with magnesium is common in many supplements.

I finally found the slow mag magnesium chloride so I will switch. It says take 2tablets daily is it best to split those up?

yes..
 

One in the morning and one at night. After a while you may find you
only need one a day (if you eat magnesium containing foods to help)

here is a reminder article...
 

on foods providing magnesium. Time to bump this up, so here it goes:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20031...-diabetes-risk

A reminder:
When taking supplements of magnesium your target should be 1/2 of the RDA.
Assume that the other half is being provided by food.

If you make a good attempt at food choices daily, you could conceivably go without supplements. (unless you are depleting magnesium with drug therapies)

As the article points out, people with kidney disease need to be careful while using magnesium in supplement form.

If the bottle does not say how much elemental how do you know? Right now I am taking the 400 mg of magnesium glycinate. Is this a good amount for results?