[Jomar]

[Extract Iron particles from Your Total cereal. Talk about your recommended daily allowance of iron. You won't believe it! ]
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-ex...cereal-169550/

CEREAL WHAT ARE YOU REALY EATING
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b8_1319760343

There's many more of these online videos about it.

[mrsD]

Vitamins designed for men, and postmenopausal women do not have iron added, BTW.

[mrsD]

Oh, well... I am going to think on this. Ferrous sulfate is what is typically added to foods. It is available for treatment for anemia in that form.

Here is a link to an MRI study showing ferrous sulfate showing up in MRI study
http://www.scmr.org/caseoftheweek/2011/2580.html

And BTW he is using my plastic coated magnets. Notice he had TWO stacked to do this....esp on the water demonstration. Those are neodymium rare earth magnets....very very strong. Not regular magnets commonly available.

Who is that guy....his credentials?

I don't see proof that the black substance was Iron filings. It could be an iron compound, that is just insoluble in water.
Iron taken orally for example as ferrous sulfate is not well absorbed unless taken with Vit C or other acidic substance.

People also ingest iron that is given off cast iron cookware.
I'd like to see that demonstration done with vinegar to simulate the stomach's acidity (vinegar is less acid than stomach acid BTW).

What I see in that demonstration is proof that the iron was added to the
product (so there is no fraud in that way).
Notice that he did NOT test DRY granules of the cereal. This is probably because the iron from the ferrous sulfate, precipitated out in the aqueous environment. It might be very different if he used a pH of stomach contents instead!

BTW Iron is one of the nutrients that is not absorbed when people use acid blocking drugs. Iron, calcium, magnesium, folate, zinc, B12 all require acidic environment to be absorbed. People taking high dose ferrous sulfate for anemia often develop dark stools, as much of that iron is not absorbed at all. The body has strict ways of controlling iron absorption to prevent iron overload. That iron, in nonacidic stools is dark too, like what precipitated out of the cereal mixed with non acidic water.

[Dr. Smith]

You can do the same experiment with enriched flour. Some of the statements made in the videos were not entirely accurate.

One video/site said something to the effect that only elemental iron can be influenced by a magnet. This is not true. There are many iron compounds that can be influenced by magnets, including but not limited to Magnetite [Fe3O4], which IS a natural magnet itself.

The videos would also have us believe that elemental iron is not absorbable/bioavailable at all. This is not true. It's not as available as some other forms, but it's cheaper, and it is somewhat available. The same can be said of many of the supplements we discuss here (e.g. B12). We try to buy/use methylcobalamin because it's better absorbed than cyanocobalamin, yet the cyano- is still what's used in most B-complex supplements.

Disclaimer: I'm not defending/condoning putting iron particles (even though they'd be chemically changed almost immediately in the stomach environment) into food. I don't know enough about it yet. But when I heard (at least) two statements in the videos I knew to be blatantly false/misleading, it gave me reason to suspect them and dig a little further.

After checking Snopes.com and Stats.org (neither of which had any results) I went to Google and found this:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...n-iron-filings

Then I went to Wiki (as a starting point).

Elemental iron, or reduced iron, despite being absorbed at only one third to two thirds the efficiency (relative to iron sulfate),[60] is often added to foods such as breakfast cereals or enriched wheat flour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron#Health_and_diet

But let's go to the sources:

The results indicate that the reduced iron powder was absorbed to a lower extent compared to the other iron powders and only 36% compared to FeSO(4).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15864409

In this paper we have by using this method shown that
the evaluated elemental iron powders currently available
for commercial use are significantly less well absorbed
compared to FeSO4·H2O.
This method demands administration of an iron
dose that is much higher than what would be consumed
in a common fortified meal.Nevertheless, recent results
show that the induced serum iron increase following
100 mg Fe added to a food could predict the iron absorption
of a small dose of iron added to the same meal
[15].
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v08156584385412v/

If, as kids, we'd seen Mr. Wizard do this experiment, we'd likely have thought it was cool!

Doc

[mrsD]

This explains iron absorption in humans:

http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/iron_absorption.html

The physical state of iron entering the duodenum greatly influences its absorption however. At physiological pH, ferrous iron (Fe2+) is rapidly oxidized to the insoluble ferric (Fe3+) form. Gastric acid lowers the pH in the proximal duodenum, enhancing the solubility and uptake of ferric iron (Table 1). When gastric acid production is impaired (for instance by acid pump inhibitors such as the drug, prilosec), iron absorption is reduced substantially.....Figure 1. Iron absorption. Iron enters the stomach from the esophagus. Iron is oxidized to the Fe3+ state no matter its original form when taken in orally. Gastric acidity as well as solubilizing agents such as ascorbate prevent precipitation of the normally insoluble Fe3+ . Intestinal mucosal cells in the duodenum and upper jejunum absorb the iron. The iron is coupled to transferrin (Tf) in the circulation which delivers it to the cells of the body. Phytates, tannins and antacids block iron absorption.

The test in the video did not use an acid aqueous medium, so naturally the iron would not be soluble and would precipitate out. I don't think those were "filings" as those would be sharp and dangerous. I think the stuff adhering to the neodymium magnets was a fine chemical precipitate, and they were stuck to pieces of fiber that were floating in the slurry. Notice the "need" to add more water? This indicates a very small amount of precipitate IMO. If real iron filings were in that cereal you could pulverize it dry and run it over the magnets and get them that way.

I think the whole thing is suspect. The only thing proven was that iron in some form is in the cereal as advertized. But as filings? NOPE.

Also, this quote from Dr. Smith is not exactly accurate:

The same can be said of many of the supplements we discuss here (e.g. B12). We try to buy/use methylcobalamin because it's better absorbed than cyanocobalamin, yet the cyano- is still what's used in most B-complex supplements.

Both cyano and methyl B12 are absorbed alike. The difference is that cyano is not active once it is absorbed in the body, and has to be converted into the active methyl form.
Cyano is used because it is inexpensive and historically that remains common. Just like magnesium oxide is inexpensive and remains common. (only recent studies show MagOx is not absorbed much at all--but doctors still cling to it and prescribe it!). There are many people using oral cyano B12 successfully because their bodies convert it well after it gets into the blood stream. Methyl B12 is better, because it is already activated and does not require conversion (which some people fail at genetically). There are absolutely no studies to show cyano or methyl are absorbed differently.

[Dr. Smith]

I stand corrected. I misconstrued something.

What I was trying to say was correct - just a bad example; magnesium was better.

I guess my Mr. Wizard joke wasn't too far off - just found the same experiment in this Canadian High School Science experiment.
http://www.edu.pe.ca/agriculture/nutchems.pdf

and an Indiana University chemistry course
http://courses.chem.indiana.edu/c118...structions.pdf

and here (scroll down to page 4)
http://us.boehringer-ingelheim.com/c...nts_051810.pdf

Filings? Not exactly. It's iron, but several pages refer to it as "Food grade iron powder".
http://www.flinnsci.com/Documents/newsPDFs/91603.pdf

This phenomenon seems to be all over the place, and for a long time. IMO these recent(?) vids are just another case of old news making a big sensationalist splash.

Doc

[mrsD]

So what is the point? Yes, the point is that iron was present.

Bioavailability is a pharmaceutical concept. We take minerals all the time and don't think about it at all. Doctors certainly don't think about it seems to me most of the time!

All the minerals we consume are in ionic form, in one state or another. Iron has more than one ionic state in fact.

What this video offered is an alarming "revelation" that iron FILINGS were extracted. Filings are SHARP and can cut up tender tissue. So in this regard, the video was "alarming". That's all.

What was shown was that the cereal contained some form of iron. Now if you want to get picky about bioavailability of what type of iron is the MOST bioavailable, here is an article to illustrate that.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/11/3546.full

There are similar studies showing the same problem with magnesium. Magnesium OXIDE is not really bioavailable, and is used now as a laxative. But in the form of magnesium CHLORIDE it is absorbed by the GI tract and available to be carried in the blood stream to places where it is needed by the many enzymes that perform metabolic living functions for humans.

I tried to find a nutritional label for Total cereal, that listed the type of iron in it and was not able to find one within a reasonable time frame.
I have two types of cereal here, Crispix and Cheerios, and both only list "iron" (and also zinc) as added. But no further information as to the type of iron salt included.

BUT my Zone bars detail what type of iron is in them:
ferrous fumerate
For magnesium the useless magnesium oxide, and for zinc it is zinc oxide, Chromium chloride, Sodium Selenite and Sodium molybdate. All of the minerals of course are listed as ions.


Fumerate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumaric_acid
This is often used to carry other active ingredients biologically in the body. It is called a chelate.

This article on magnesium explains what "elemental" means:
This is the monograph on magnesium:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium

Oral magnesium supplements combine magnesium with another substance such as a salt. Examples of magnesium supplements include magnesium oxide, magnesium sulfate, and magnesium carbonate. Elemental magnesium refers to the amount of magnesium in each compound. Figure 1 compares the amount of elemental magnesium in different types of magnesium supplements [28]. The amount of elemental magnesium in a compound and its bioavailability influence the effectiveness of the magnesium supplement. Bioavailability refers to the amount of magnesium in food, medications, and supplements that is absorbed in the intestines and ultimately available for biological activity in your cells and tissues. Enteric coating (the outer layer of a tablet or capsule that allows it to pass through the stomach and be dissolved in the small intestine) of a magnesium compound can decrease bioavailability [29]. In a study that compared four forms of magnesium preparations, results suggested lower bioavailability of magnesium oxide, with significantly higher and equal absorption and bioavailability of magnesium chloride and magnesium lactate [30]. This supports the belief that both the magnesium content of a dietary supplement and its bioavailability contribute to its ability to restore deficient levels of magnesium.

For Iron:

Supplemental iron is available in two forms: ferrous and ferric. Ferrous iron salts (ferrous fumarate, ferrous sulfate, and ferrous gluconate) are the best absorbed forms of iron supplements [64]. Elemental iron is the amount of iron in a supplement that is available for absorption. Figure 1 lists the percent elemental iron in these supplements.

from http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/iron
Check the link and please view the interest bar graph.

So in my mind I wonder why we don't get details on cereal as to what form the iron is in? Seems rather cryptic to me. But I do not think the addition is iron filings.
My Zone bars clearly include the name of the iron type in them. Which is a pharmaceutical grade known to be useful.

My overall impression of these demonstrations is that they were done to alarm people. That emotional response, really is at the heart of the videos. This is how propaganda is disseminated... with alarming techniques to capture peoples' attention.
The black iron precipitate is "dirty looking" and alarming, to most people. But that is how iron powders actually look. And why they turn the stool dark, as a side effect. Iron is not well absorbed and most is eliminated if taken in high concentration as in Iron deficiency treatments medically.

[mrsD]

I am beginning to think that some cereal additives are listed at the FDA and approved there. Perhaps some trade secrets...called "proprietary" etc. This quote suggests "patents" may be in place and hence secret to consumers. Perhaps calling them on the phone--consumer hotline-- would reveal more? However, maybe not, as Hershey wouldn't tell ME how much sorbitol was in their cherry chocolate kisses, that made me SO ill! They did send me $9.00 in coupons however for any Hershey product!

from the FDA website:

How do they add vitamins and minerals to fortified cereals?

A Adding nutrients to a cereal can cause taste and color changes in the product. This is especially true with added minerals. Since no one wants cereal that tastes like a vitamin supplement, a variety of techniques are employed in the fortification process. In general, those nutrients that are heat stable (such as vitamins A and E and various minerals) are incorporated into the cereal itself (they're baked right in). Nutrients that are not stable to heat (such as B-vitamins) are applied directly to the cereal after all heating steps are completed. Each cereal is unique -- some can handle more nutrients than others can. This is one reason why fortification levels are different across all cereals.

from http://www.fda.gov/food/foodingredie...11.htm#qalabel

The Zone bars are a nutritional food from Abbott...so they may be more complete in their labeling. It may be their "policy" also.

[Dr. Smith]

Originally Posted by mrsD

But I do not think the addition is iron filings.

I don't either, and that's where much of the deception comes in. They move the iron particles around with a magnet, and it appears they are needle-like (oblong), as they appear to stand on end, like whiskers.... Bingo.

Remember those toys (the name escapes me) we had as kids (some parents out there probably still have one kicking around) with the picture of the guy with the red nose and covered with a piece of plastic, and filled with iron particles, with a magnet attached. You could use the magnet to move the iron particles around and give the guy different "hair styles" and "facial hair".

The ones I remember had granular iron, (probably in case kids busted into them and accidentally consumed a few - those things were so common that if they were harmful, there would have been lynchings) but due to the way iron ions line up when influenced by a magnet, the particles stacked up to form needle-like structures. When you removed the magnet (unless the particles retained some of the magnetism, which is pretty easy to do) the particles fell apart again. This phenomenon makes it appear that the granular particles are oblong/elongated slivers of iron - "filings" if you will - when they're really not.

Googling: food grade iron powder yields many interesting articles, and this little gem....
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/redu...wder-food.html

Doc