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Underlying cause for Benzo use and getting off without withdrawls

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Old 12-31-2015, 11:14 AM   #1
onemanatatime
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Default Underlying cause for Benzo use and getting off without withdrawls

Hello so i have been thinking a lot lately on the reason being that so many people are on - and get stuck on benzodiazepines.

I myself got Klonopin prescribed for managing Fibromyalgia Pains, as i couldn't tolerate opiates, tramadol etc. But i have always used it in a on - off approach due to the fact that i did not want to become dependent , as when i first got sick abroad many years ago with a virus infection of sorts, they got me on high doses off Xanax and i had to get off when i got out of the hospital and home.

But for me Klonopin has always worked good with coping with pain.

BUT i was thinking, keep in mind no case without exception, but could there be a reason why people struggle so hard to get off benzodiazepines , opiates etc. due to the fact that here is an underlying genetic condition making their neurochemistry unbalanced in the first place.

Take me for example i am a strong believer that for any disease, there is a root cause. And therefore i have a strong belief in Functional Medicine approach to health. Surely being in its "infant" part of the "medical revolution" i have found out that instead of you have fibromyalgia that's it , that i had gut issues, leaky gut (i know the tests for this are heavily rejected by some, but if you look into it , it's not that hard to see the logic and mechanism behind the test , how its performed and the answers it gives. And also i had heavy metal toxicity (mercury) and way to much cobber. Bot linked to a whole host of problems including nerve system, chronic inflammation etc.

Now i have been somewhat of a health "freak" biohacker, call it what you want really, for some years now, especially after i got sick. And i am a strong believer that it is possible that a vast majority off people being in pain or sick for what ever reason - there are underlying causes. Genetic factors. Environmental factors and toxic exposures of manny kind.

I myself saw tremendous improvement by cutting gluten, wheat, corn, milk - sugar etc. and going the Paleo approach, which isn't that hard to believe seeing the thousands of people´s testaments by switching diet etc.

My point is that i got genetically tested via 23andme.com and found out several really interesting and cool stuff. For example i'm ApoE E3/E4 which gets me in the category of having higher chance of developing Alzheimer's disease for example and also a high fat low carb diet put my cholesterol in a slightly bad way, so by increasing the carbs to a modest level i can get myself back in the good range.

Also i have deficit in several genes related to decreased GABA activity, which makes me prone to dependency of GABAergic compounds of the benzodiazepine sorts.

So now, that got way longer than intended, but the reason for this post is that i´m gonna off off the drugs completely in end of january and trying to heal fix the withdrawal symptoms completely and hopefully get a desired normal effect in the gaba receptors by supplements. And i am looking for inputs here, on annyone that has tried something similar, or know or heard of someone doing the same, please direct them to my thread.

In my belief the reason that so many have a hard time quitting benzodiazepines and suffers withdrawal or feel so bad that they have to get back on them is in many cases, not all, a strong deficit in their Neurochemistry - gene expressions that they feel the need to go back on.

Also i will experiment with making my own liposomal tinctures containing some of the supplements listed below. i will be posting some guides etc

Heads up - i live in Europe and english is not my mother tongue, so i apologize for any mis typings or bad grammar

Supplements im looking into:

L-Glutamine
Glycine
L-Glutamic acid
GABA in LIPOSOMAL form with L-Theanine.
Liposomal CBD (cannabidiol) don't know if spelled that right
L-tryptophan
5HTP
L-Lysine
Beta-alanine
Inosistol
Niacin
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:12 PM   #2
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Hi onemanatatime

Welcome to NeuroTalk - I hope that you find the community as knowledgeable and supportive as I have.

Some thoughts:

I am sceptical about genetic testing (23andme, etc). Having a copy of the apoE4 gene does put you at increased risk of AD and the same applies to whatever else the tests may have showed. However, these are just risk factors - genetic determinism ("OMG, it is in my genes, I am doomed.") is a myth.

The various supplements that you are considering are all produced in your body from the food that you eat. Unless you have an underlying medical problem (your doctor can advise you about this) and unless you are not eating in a healthy way (a dietitian can help here), there is no need to eat those supplements.

All the best.
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:14 PM   #3
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I too believe there are reasons for everything ILL we are challenged with. For my body it's MOSTLY osteoarthritis and my mother's family dealt with it all their lives. And my years of consuming sugars/carbs....good grief I see all the damage done from those years. I'm 77 and go back a lot to my early life.

I was given the Fibro dx in 1999 and have always believed it's a thyroid dsyfunction MOSt of all. And other issues need to be addressed: adrenals, hormones etc....I have been doing them all. My story is long and I still work with finding NEW helpers to support my aging OA and so called Fibro life.

I've used many of the above you list and still do use some of them in my management of what I deal with. Gaba is in my sleep remedy which I have posted here. I sleep GOOD.

I take very very few pharma drugs and now even working to get off the blood pressure meds which people are on for lifetimes...

Welcome here and hope to hear from you more. C
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OA onset at 18, now 77. Fibro onset at 61, Hip Replacement "mess" 72 (nerve damage, IT band damage, shorter leg). Otherwise, pretty good health.

Most important supplement: grape seed extract
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:26 AM   #4
onemanatatime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi33 View Post
Hi onemanatatime

Welcome to NeuroTalk - I hope that you find the community as knowledgeable and supportive as I have.

Some thoughts:

I am sceptical about genetic testing (23andme, etc). Having a copy of the apoE4 gene does put you at increased risk of AD and the same applies to whatever else the tests may have showed. However, these are just risk factors - genetic determinism ("OMG, it is in my genes, I am doomed.") is a myth.

The various supplements that you are considering are all produced in your body from the food that you eat. Unless you have an underlying medical problem (your doctor can advise you about this) and unless you are not eating in a healthy way (a dietitian can help here), there is no need to eat those supplements.

All the best.

Thanks.

well first off all , not everyone can handle to much information about their health condition etc. But genetic testing do give you vital information regarding genetic predispositions. i have been eating clean for several years. paleo style, both high carb - low carb - high fat and vice versa which gave me pretty strange cholesterol readings from measuring consistently over time. So that made me switch to moderate fat. medium carb and protein. which then again along with the apoe gene variation kind of confirms one of the mechanisms that can be associated with having that gene variation.

On another hand, i get what you're saying when it comes too eating healthy its important , but what i strongly disagree with is that you get what you need from food regarding vitamins and minerals etc. for example if you have the MTHFR gene, you simply wont methylate as a normal person and that could potentially bring problems like high blood pressure . high homocysteine blood levels which again is a risk factor for cardiac issues.

In order to perfectly say that you get what you need of minerals and vitamins you would in my opinion

1. need to feel well
2. have your blood tested for vitamins - minerals in urine etc.
3. have a very wide diet variety and A LOT of vegetables, as evidence and research suggest the mineral and vitamin compositions have dropped a hole lot in food in general the last years . Not to get into the negative effects of accumulative pesticides in your body. giving your body potentially much more stressors, inflammation and heavy metals etc.

Once your body really hits rock bottom , if you add in the several factors mentioned above, and a lot of little stuff like chronic stress and other things, i think it's very ignorant to say that a healthy diet will provide your body with what it needs, as you don't know what that is, how much your getting and what you're really looking at informs of possible gene variations etc. anyways thats just my thoughts
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroline2 View Post
I too believe there are reasons for everything ILL we are challenged with. For my body it's MOSTLY osteoarthritis and my mother's family dealt with it all their lives. And my years of consuming sugars/carbs....good grief I see all the damage done from those years. I'm 77 and go back a lot to my early life.

I was given the Fibro dx in 1999 and have always believed it's a thyroid dsyfunction MOSt of all. And other issues need to be addressed: adrenals, hormones etc....I have been doing them all. My story is long and I still work with finding NEW helpers to support my aging OA and so called Fibro life.

I've used many of the above you list and still do use some of them in my management of what I deal with. Gaba is in my sleep remedy which I have posted here. I sleep GOOD.

I take very very few pharma drugs and now even working to get off the blood pressure meds which people are on for lifetimes...

Welcome here and hope to hear from you more. C

Hello and thanks!

That is interesting, i think that the thyroid can indeed cause a lot of problems. Have you had your urine tested (24 hour) test for iodine? your GP should be able to perform its one crucial element to have in place for thyroid health.

Interesting , may i ask, in what form do you take the GABA? Liposomal - powder or capsules?

What other of my mentioned supplements are you using , and what have you found most beneficial ?

Wish you all the best

Onemanatatime
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:31 PM   #6
caroline2
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Hi again, I use Gaba capsules, Now Foods brand. 500mg with my sleep combo.

500mg L-Lysine for prevention. I dealt with Herpes probably 40 yrs ago and don't want to think about shingles which many do get. I've never had shingles.

500mg Inositol a couple times per day and this is in my sleep combo as well.

100mg Niacin and 500mg Niacinimide for arthritis management. Some days I take 1000mg Niacinimide. I've been taking Niacinimide for a couple yrs now and believe it's giving me some relief with the OA.

I've bought some Glycine but it drugs me out...so I don't take it.

I also take 3-5 drops of Iosol Iodine daily in clean water now for a few years. When I've missed the Iodine, I would get breast pains. All our body tissues need iodine. I don't eat a lot of seafoods, I do like seafoods but don't go out of my way to buy them. I eat some.

I wanted to mention on the Fibro issue, I was hit with an emotional trauma in July 1999 which knocked my body OFF big time...this was a shocking job loss at age 61...so the fear/fright/flight mode hit me. This happened before I got my thyroid finally supported in 2002....so my thinking is IF the thyroid were in good condition, the trauma would not have been as bad as it hit me.

I had been trying to get thyroid support from 1991 and because of the medical numbers, my doc at the time said I was NORMAL. Not so... I've done so much research and work on the thyroid dsyfunction issue and know that before labs existed, MD's gave desiccated thyroid to patients with a long list of symptoms: depression, hair loss, cold extremeties, fatigue, weakness, pain etc etc etc.....69 some symptoms from sluggish thyroids.

So so many with the normal numbers can use even a theraputic low dose of desiccated thyroid support.

My MOST favorite supplement is grape seed extract and I mention it in my signature. Going on 21 years with it. This antioxidant just helps everything in our bodies work better....and the main reason I got on it was we were told it "may" prevent cancer(s). First thing to go was a lifelong history with allergies/sinus issues.

Well, I've rambled but giving you what helps me a lot....don't forget Vit D, so so many are deficient and have no idea. Oh magnesium too, very important in my life. I've posted a lot in the vit/supps/herb area here. C
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OA onset at 18, now 77. Fibro onset at 61, Hip Replacement "mess" 72 (nerve damage, IT band damage, shorter leg). Otherwise, pretty good health.

Most important supplement: grape seed extract
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:38 PM   #7
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Hi onemanatatime

"So that made me switch to moderate fat. medium carb and protein"
Good plan. Among other things, in my day job I have taught dietitian students in their preclinical years.

"if you have the MTHFR gene, you simply wont methylate as a normal person"
Everybody has the MTHFR gene; it is mutations in it which are important. The most common of these are C677T and A1298C though there are others.

This is a good example of when genetic screening is sensible. People with mutations like C677T and/or A1298C in the MTHFR gene will have abnormalities of folate metabolism - this is when a folate supplement will be appropriate for specific medical/physiological reasons.

" have a very wide diet variety and A LOT of vegetables"
Good plan.

"i think it's very ignorant to say that a healthy diet will provide your body with what it needs [emphasis added]"

It is up to others to judge the extent to which I am "very ignorant". In my day job I teach University students and do biomedical reseach (PhD, not a medical qualification). I have a reasonable understanding of most of biomedical science though of course there are things that I don't know about.

As far as your diet is concerned I suggest that you see both a GP and a dietitian. The GP will be able to check you out for medical problems (with help from specialists if needed) and then, depending, confer with a dietitian about ways in which your diet could be improved in the context of (possible) medical problems.
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Last edited by kiwi33; 01-02-2016 at 01:42 AM. Reason: Scientific clarity
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:56 AM   #8
eva5667faliure
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Default Thanks Kiwi and Caroline

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi33 View Post
Hi onemanatatime

"So that made me switch to moderate fat. medium carb and protein"
Good plan. Among other things, in my day job I have taught dietitian students in their preclinical years.

"if you have the MTHFR gene, you simply wont methylate as a normal person"
Everybody has the MTHFR gene; it is mutations in it which are important. The most common of these are C677T and A1298C though there are others.

This is a good example of when genetic screening is sensible. People with mutations like C677T and/or A1298C in the MTHFR gene will have abnormalities of folate metabolism - this is when a folate supplement will be appropriate for specific medical/physiological reasons.

" have a very wide diet variety and A LOT of vegetables"
Good plan.

"i think it's very ignorant to say that a healthy diet will provide your body with what it needs [emphasis added]"

It is up to others to judge the extent to which I am "very ignorant". In my day job I teach University students and do biomedical reseach (PhD, not a medical qualification). I have a reasonable understanding of most of biomedical science though of course there are things that I don't know about.

As far as your diet is concerned I suggest that you see both a GP and a dietitian. The GP will be able to check you out for medical problems (with help from specialists if needed) and then, depending, confer with a dietitian about ways in which your diet could be improved in the context of (possible) medical problems.
I am happy to see interest in what I just come to learn
My blood work reveals I tested positive for the
MTHFR MUTATION DNA with high homocysteine levels
List of ailments from this mutation other than the obvious
Not able to absorb nor process any meds correctly
This is me:
Thyroglossal duct cyst found in 2009 active
Diverticulitis
Stomach issues all my life (brushed most of it off)
Depression
OCD
Cancer

Here is my most disturbing experience ever
Having done soooooo much homework
My insurance denied the what I refer to as the mega vitamin
"DEPLIN"
Having what I refer to as the most important persons on my train right now are:
Oncologist who hasn't returned my call e dry three months
OBGYN missed my very first time appointment I was forgotten
doctor busy delivering babies once a year
Pain specialist once a month
Shrink bi-weekly
My pharmacist as we always talk
Posting
Switching to computer
Fingers beginning to hurt
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:58 PM   #9
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Eva, I've talked about homocysteine and fibrinogen elevated here for some time. It's 3 yrs that I'm working on reducing homocysteine, MFolate is my major supp, along with TMG and B12. I've mentioned the MFolate to you. Importance of B12 and that these two can pull potassium for our bodies...so I'm on top of that. I have a good friend who is working with MFolate and knows it inside and out. She helps me a lot.
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OA onset at 18, now 77. Fibro onset at 61, Hip Replacement "mess" 72 (nerve damage, IT band damage, shorter leg). Otherwise, pretty good health.

Most important supplement: grape seed extract
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:33 AM   #10
eva5667faliure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroline2 View Post
Eva, I've talked about homocysteine and fibrinogen elevated here for some time. It's 3 yrs that I'm working on reducing homocysteine, MFolate is my major supp, along with TMG and B12. I've mentioned the MFolate to you. Importance of B12 and that these two can pull potassium for our bodies...so I'm on top of that. I have a good friend who is working with MFolate and knows it inside and out. She helps me a lot.
I have not been on this site
I think I came in as a member
somewhere around I want to say 2013
Not sure
But I am here now

I called Nestle the company that makes DEPLIN
I have called yesterday and spoke with the RX department
The reason
It has been suggested I take additional supplements
The point I am getting to
One less item to buy with all othe supplements
because of the MTHFR MUTATION and high homogenous
Tested positive ONLY ONE OF THE TWO VARIANTS

PLEASE
Understand
I DO NOT WANT AN ABUNDANCE of pills capsules tablets
and such
It was explained to me by the nurse
I can just take the DEPLIN 15mg tablet
Suggested in the morning
If I should feel tired or woozy in any way
To stick with it and take it at bedtime
I hope you understand what I am trying to express
I'm so tired of another pill
THIS HOWEVER IS DIFFERENT
I feel with all the failed antidepressants
my mutation a direct cause of the depressants not
getting the full benefits
As my body will not respond to until I address it
This I would be a fool not to try
May you be well
And please keep me informed if I may be
MISINFORMED AGAIN
thank you
Love
Me
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