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Old 12-02-2006, 11:30 PM #1
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Red face Mrs D -- L-Lysine & CFIDS: can you help me?

Dear MrsD ....

May I ask you for a favor?

I've asked about this before at OBT and the other day here - both times on the CFIDS forums - without any response at all....

So I bring this to you...

The magazine article I speak of was in a Saturday Evening Post, probably about 1993 - perhaps 94. I have done searches in the past (not in the past couple of years), and found nothing... but the fact that it has SO CONSISTENTLY helped me thru the years whenever I've had relapses.

When I say that mine is triggered by rejection, perhaps it is simply that THAT type of emotional impact is the harshest type of wound I can sustain.

Yesterday, I used a new callous file to buff the harsh edges off the capsule-shaped tablets and the went down easily -- but that gets tedious given that I am currently taking 6000 mg a day (6 tablets) and sometimes have to take up to 18,000mg a day (common years ago -for a few weeks- when I was my sickest and it took that much to fight off a relapse)..

Two things -
1) do you know a brand that is "nicer" (I found one years ago, but don't recall the brand).... and
2) do you have anything to add to my story, any research or antecdotes?

I know that L-Lysine not being a drug to be patented and sold for any particular profit, there is ZERO financial incentive for expensive research.... but I am very interested in spreading the word - for if it worked for that guy for years.... and it worked for me for years.. then there HAS to be something to it. Can't just be the two of us.

Teri

NOW HERE IS THAT ARTICLE FROM THE OTHER FORUM
After several years of barely making it along with my CFIDS, many years ago, my mother sent me an aricle about a man who had been disabled for years with CFIDS. I've forgotten now how he got onto this, but it was all about the imbalance between L-Lysine and another aminio acid.

For instance, when you pig out on peanut butter, a can of cahews or similar nut binges, someone with CFIDS (at least people like him and like me) have the overload of this other amino acid either deplenished or just overwhelmed in amount .... and the symptoms would creep in almost immediately.

As to the nuts (especially) or heavy regular amounts of other high level foods, thru these many years, I have often had a relapse, then started thinking back and suddenly realized what triggered it.

For many years, I took a large quantity of L-Lysine prophalactically. But with years of journaling and charting, I discovered what it was that triggered CFIDS relapses (those not related to foods). EVERY LAST TIME I would be rejected by someone who meant something to me, I would crash and burn, with low-grade fever coming on within 72 hours or less.

Over the years, therapy helped me understand the traumatic roots of those feelings of abandonment, to see things in different ways, to not take things as deeply in -- learned to accept and let go, and taught me not to overvalue relationships that should never meant that much to me to begin with. But learning to let go -- that was the biggie.

But when something pops up on me, it can still lay me low.

But recently, in the past six months, I had experienced a great deal of rejection from my children -- and as all you moms know, having an adult child do that to you stings like a nest of scorpions. And this time, I didn't get the fevers, but I got outbreaks of every last quiescent viral infection I harbour in my body. And finally I went and bought myself a new supply of Lysine. And I was finally getting a bit of handle on it,

but since my sister's death two weeks ago, I've once again begun a low-grade fever... and viral breakouts are starting again .... So it is pretty obvious I need to really up the dose. And they are SO terrible to swallow - likely to catch in my esophagus. I need to find a source that provides them rounded and maybe lightly coated.

Does anyone know where I can find such meds that don't cost an arm and leg?

Teri
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:38 AM #2
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Lightbulb I cannot vouch for Lysine

and Chronic Fatigue, personally.

It is available as a powder (body builders use it alot) but I cannot vouch
its taste.
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=NOW-00240

I would consider looking at other things that boost immunity as well. Such as zinc and selenium.
You have to be careful with selenium however...
http://dietary-supplements.info.nih....s/selenium.asp
It has a narrow therapeutic window, and can be toxic if overused.
200mcg is the typical upper limit (in people eating a typical diet).
I would not recommend more than 200mcg/day in a supplement.

I would also consider Googling immune support, and make sure you get
other nutrients for this...besides Lysine only.

Lysine info:
http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetCo...chunkiid=21791
Quote:
Safety Issues

Although lysine is an essential part of the diet, the safety of concentrated lysine supplements has not been well studied. In animal studies, high dosages have caused gallstones and elevated cholesterol levels, 15,16 so you may want to use caution when using lysine if you have either of these problems. Maximum safe dosages for young children, pregnant or nursing women, or those with severe liver or kidney disease have not been established.
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Old 12-03-2006, 06:05 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsd View Post
I cannot vouch for L-Lysine and Chronic Fatigue, personally.

It is available as a powder (body builders use it alot) but I cannot vouch
its taste.
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDe...&pid=NOW-00240
THANK YOU!! I was beginning to wonder if I could dissolve the darned things in a glass of crystal lite - I will try it for my next dose and thank you for the link for the powder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsd
I would consider looking at other things that boost immunity as well. Such as zinc and selenium.
And I just threw away all my zinc lozenges - the kind to -supposedly- elimate the nasty symptoms of the common cold!!! NEVER did away with my symptoms. Neither did Zicam (was that what is was called?)

But I'd rather use a pill anyway -- the lozenges (all except for one brand) were filled with GRITTY zinc stuff and irritated the heck out of my tender tonsils when the grit caught in them.

My Centrum Silver has 15mg of Zinc. 100%, they say. But I recognize those amounts are often lower than is needed. Who decides those amounts anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsd
You have to be careful with selenium however...
http://dietary-supplements.info.nih....s/selenium.asp
It has a narrow therapeutic window, and can be toxic if overused.
200mcg is the typical upper limit (in people eating a typical diet).
I would not recommend more than 200mcg/day in a supplement.
Centrum Silver has only 20mg of selenium (which they indicate is a 29%-- and I eat poorly - scarcely a "good diet", so I will look into a supplement right away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsd
I would also consider Googling immune support, and make sure you get
other nutrients for this...besides Lysine only.
"Immune Support" right away, you can be sure. Thank you SO MUCH. Since meeting you, I've added a lot of supplements - high omega fish oil, folic acid, vit B12 (sublingual), a Super B combo (with brewer's yeast & liver base), Calcium with Vit D, and bit of Magnesium. Maybe more, but that's all I can think of now.

I added lisinopril to my beta blocker/diuretic, take thyroid supplement, my Lamictal & Wellbutrin, and estrogen. This immune system weakening again is my only big problem right now - it limits my activites so dreadfully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsd
Thank you for your help. I learn a lot from you. You keep on top of all these things.
Teri
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Old 12-03-2006, 10:16 PM #4
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Lightbulb ACE inhibitors

Like lisinopril deplete zinc.

You might look into OptiZinc once a day. It is not expensive.
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Old 12-04-2006, 01:05 PM #5
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You could have a zinc deficiency. There is a product that will tell you if you are deficient in zinc. Zinc Status is sold in most health food stores for about $15 or less. This product works, and it better than a blood test done by your doctor.

I have a severe zinc and b6 deficiency. I know what you mean about rejection; I have been knocked on my butt because of psychological stress (or rejection). Zinc is great for the adrenal glands, and it also helps with boosting the immune system if you keep getting colds or infections. I have a hard time handling stress in general because of my deficiencies.

When I started supplementing some time ago I missed one dose because of a stomach ache or something, and I got a cold because of my zinc deficiency and missing just that one dose. The Zinc Status is a handy product to have around because even after supplementing zinc for weeks or months you can still be deficient in this mineral. And the only way you will know this is if you use the Zinc Status to test yourself.

Most of the lozenges contain very little zinc, only a few milligrams at most. But might not be bad during the winter as an adjunct to real zinc supplements, but won't make much difference on their own. I think Zicam is great if you have a cold because it gets the zinc in your nose where it is trying to reproduce itself.

I have fatigue and have tried some lysine. I didn't notice that it helped my fatigue. But I I have read that it can help with fatigue. I think you really have to have every single nutrient you need in order to beat fatigue, especially if this problem may be considered chronic or long standing.

The lysine caused my histamine levels to get high and this caused me to feel depressed rather suddenly. (I don't think lysine is something I need.) I don't think taking one amino acid long term on your own without any medical supervison is a good idea. I think you may have some nutritional problems besides just zinc and might need to find a qualified doctor who can treat your fatigue through a nutritional approach.

I had even tried the William Jeffries approach to treating adrenal fatigue with low dose natural cortisone supplements. That 4 or 5 mg. dose of cortisone just made my zinc deficiency even worse and did not really help the fatigue.

Taking synthetic estrogen makes you high in copper even without the zinc deficiency. When estrogen goes up in the body so does copper. Women you use anovulatory meds can have a problem with metabolizing vitamin b6. You may need some pyridoxine and p-5-p form of b6 besides the zinc if you have any hormonal problems.

The low thyroid is another reason to think you probably have a zinc deficiency. Selenium is also needed for the thyroid to function properly.

Because you have a couple of health conditions it would be best to be seen by someone who is qualified to help you with your nutritional issues.
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:36 AM #6
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Lightbulb Beware Zicam...

I do not recommend this product.

Application of topical zinc (even in small quantities) to the nasal membranes, can
potentially affect the sense of smell, (and taste) permanently for some people.

This has been in the news quite a bit, and here is a website
that has information on it. This last link on it, discusses the settlement
to a class action suit against Zicam:
http://www.zicamsideeffects.com/claim/zicam-suit.html

And this medical site goes into more detail:
http://www.tasteandsmell.com/apr04.htm

So beware any nasal product applied directly, that contains zinc.

I have seen the "new" swab product... I wouldn't use that either. It appears to be some compromise as it won't reach the olfactory bulb directly...but still I would NOT use it.

Oral daily doses are to be preferred.

The drug Biaxin, has also been shown to affect smell/taste.
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