NeuroTalk Support Groups - do b12 symptoms wax and wane?

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- - do b12 symptoms wax and wane? (https://www.neurotalk.org/vitamins-nutrients-herbs-and-supplements/96327-b12-symptoms-wax-wane.html)

--you want to take that additional B12 on an empty stomach, apart from any other vitamins you are taking.

The cobalamin molecule is the largest molecule that the human body regularly uses, and it doesn't take much to interfere with its passive absorption through mucosal surfaces, which is what one is trying to accomplish by taking 1000mcg/day or more of B12 (since the daily "need" is more in the 8mcg range, one is trying to fulfill this through 1-2% passive absorption mechanisms--fortunately, B12 is inexpensive, and has no known toxicity level).

thanks to both of you for the great advice,

question about the b12 supplements, are these in tablet forms or the ones you put under your tongue? should i ask the pharmacy for suggestions?

i will start with the b12 and try to work on my doctor to find some underlying causes.

thanks again!

jane

jccgf, you copied and pasted reasons for b12 deficiencies"-N 2 O exposure can occur iatrogenically (ie, anesthesia)"

could someone explain this quote further to me? i had surgery in may and was put under does this cause a b12 deficiency or create symptoms?

sorry for the confusion, i was just re-reading this great info and came accross this.

jane

B12 without other vitamins?

Greetings to all.

I have been attacking my pernicious anemia with a vengence... or so I thought. Considering I started at a level of 68, I'm doing well to be alive. However, I have been taking my B12 first thing after arising (I thought that was important) but I also take my meds and a couple of other vitamins too. All this is taken while I drink my morning coffee :eek:.

So, how off the mark am I??

By the way, my symptoms definitely wax and wane ... as soon as I'm enjoying a lessening of one symptom, it comes back. The things that have improved and stayed improved are my mouth and lip problems which I had for YEARS. Numbness varies. I'm not losing weight any longer. Balance is still pretty bad and l'hermittes is rearing its ugly head but not as viciously. Unfortunately, my hair is still white and my lethargy constant. On the good side -- my overall mood has improved significantly. All this is since being finally diagnosed in late February of this year. Not had, eh?

As always, appreciate all input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jane30 (Post 547980)

I use Jarrow Brand Methylcobalamin B12, that you put under your tongue. I think it is probably more important to get the methylcobalamin type of B12, rather than cyanocobalmin, rather than whether it is sublingual or not.... at least this is the message I think I've heard from Rose and MrsD. Just found this thread here on B12 by MrsD:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread85103.html

Having said that, when I began supplementing I took Nature Made cyanocobalamin, 1000mcg daily, in regular pill form, extended release formula, and my level came up and I improved. I've also heard you shouldn't take extended release either, because you want all the bang for your buck at one time...so to speak... so that the 1-2% will be passively absorbed. Methylcobalamin is thought to work better, and for a few people who have trouble in the 'conversion/transport process' it is imperative that they take the active form. I switched over to methylcobalamin when I learned of it. I usually order from Iherb.com , but I have seen Jarrow brand in some better vitamin stores. I've used just about every brand without great preference (Country Life, Solgar, Natural Factors, Source Naturals).

From what I think I remember, a single use of nitrous oxide during surgery can cause a sudden B12 deficiency situation. I'll try to find more on that.

Quote:

Dr. Kinsella has had a longstanding interest in B12 deficiency and its relationship to nitrous oxide, a general anesthetic in common use in dental offices and hospital operating rooms. A B12 deficiency can be caused by nitrous oxide, also known as laughing gas, by inhibiting the action of B12 when tissue stores are low.
"This becomes a public health problem in the elderly undergoing surgery or dental work who may have undiagnosed and untreated B12 deficiencies. It also occurs among dental personnel and others who repeatedly abuse nitrous oxide for its euphoric effects," he says.
Nitrous oxide abuse in the form of "whippets" or "whippits" occurs among medical personnel, teenagers and young adults who purchase nitrous oxide containers from baking supply stores or use the gas contained in whipped cream dispensers (hence the name), says Kinsella. Thomas and colleagues earlier this year published the case of a young man who abused nitrous oxide and devastating neurological damage to the spinal cord and peripheral nerves. The link to nitrous oxide was recognized and the patient recovered with B12 replacement.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-wfn102704.php

I can probably something better than this, but I'm sitting down to dinner... and this is what google brought me. Also got many hits on pub med by entering nitrous oxide B12 deficiency. Try entering the terms here:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

From: The Neurological Manifestations of Gastrointestinal Disease by Mark Skeen, MD.
Neurologic Clinics
Volume 20 € Number 1 € February 2002

Quote:

Nitrous oxide, a common inhaled anesthetic used in dental and surgical procedures, inactivates cobalamin by irreversibly oxidizing the cobalt core of methylcobalamin. Numerous reports have documented acute cobalamin deficiency after exposure to nitrous oxide.[79] [141] Symptoms may be subtle or profound manifestations of cerebral or spinal cord dysfunction. [79] [141] Elderly patients with borderline cobalamin deficiency are at high risk for nitrous oxide–induced cobalamin deficiencies. Because cobalamin deficiency has been reported in 7% to 21% of elderly patients, the syndrome of nitrous oxide–induced cobalamin deficiency is likely underrecognized.[79] Elderly patients and those with previous gastric
surgery who develop central nervous system dysfunction after nitrous oxide anesthesia should be evaluated for cobalamin deficiency. Preoperative screening is appropriate for patients considered at high risk for cobalamin deficiencies.

It appears this is a problem when an individual is already borderline cobalamin deficient. But, if the onset of your symptoms seem connected to your surgery... it certainly could have thrown you over the edge if nitrous oxide was used. In any case, the treatment is B12 supplementation.

Thanks so much for this information!!!

I had wisdom teeth removal at the beginning of May where they put me out. And yes a few weeks after the surgery I started feeling worse. This is when I started searching online. I've been with low ferritin for more than a year, but just recently begged my dr. to test my b12, since developing electric shock like symptoms in my upper back going up into my head.

I will start supplements and see if they help. I will watch my symptoms closely and still try to get her test for other conditions to see if there is something tied to the low ferritin readings and the b12 reading.

I cannot thank you enough for your advice and wealth of information!

jane

hi pearl girl,
wow sounds like you have gone through many many symptoms. i hope you are now finding relief. my level is at 296 but from what i read here and elsewhere it's too low.
how long did you have symptoms before being diagnosed? my numbness comes and goes as do the electric shocks, so this is why i wasn't sure if it was connected to vitamin b12 or something like MS.
your level was very low!!, wow i hope you are starting to see improvements! what is your level at now?

jane

Jane, you're welcome, and good luck!

I sort of come and go here... lately been drawn back by "B12 talk"... if you have any other questions about B12 deficiency or gluten sensitivity that I might be able to help with.. feel free to pm me. I get notifications on pm's but might miss a post.

...and kudos to you for getting online and researching your symptoms, asking for a B12 test, and then doing your own follow up!!! That seems to be what it takes to these days... and thank goodness for the Internet and health forums... the "medical underground" I like to call it!

a big thank you!!!! and yes im soo thankful for forums like these, it really helps sort out so much that is out there!

i will let you know if i have any other questions, but again thanks for posting all this information!

jane:)