[Ephie]

I think I'm really, really, super happy I found this forum...! But I have a question for PCS sufferers with multiple concussions.

Short background: I've had three major concussions: 1.rope swing gone awry that resulted in dropping a good distance and landing on cement (blacked out, not sure how long), 2.car accident where my head went through the windshield (short black out period) and 3.slipped and fell between boulders while hiking (no blackout).

My husband says to me the other day, after watching a short blurb on athletes and concussions, "You know, after that last crack to the skull you took at Slippery Rock (appropriate name, I know), you just haven't been right." So, I started to think about my last concussion, with my other concussions...and all the mental and physical BS I have been dealing with for years. Did some research on PCS and multiple concussions, which finally led me here. So much of what I'm reading from everyone in this forum is making so much sense! TY! Unfortunately though, it would appear that the depression, migraines, anxiety, mood swings, inability to focus and be productive, cognitive deficits, etc, blah, blah, blah...the overall frustration of not being who I used to be...might linger....forever.

Has there been any research done on multiple concussions where the concussions weren't a result of sports or war injuries? And if so, could you point me to that research? Even clinical cases? If not, I understand. I've exhausted most resources and from the gist of it, I've come to understand that one can only treat the symptoms, more than likely, the symptoms will persist and quite possibly, I could be facing even more problems as I age. Yay. Having gone from successful to struggling since my last concussion, I've had a very hard time coming to terms with my deficits. At least now, I think I may have the reason as to why I'm struggling so badly.

Thanks for listening to me vent, too.

[Mark in Idaho]

Ephie,

As the elder statesman LOL on this forum regarding Multiple Impact Syndrome, welcome to Neuro Talk.

I am confused by your request for information about multiple non-sport, non-war concussions. There is no difference between a sport concussion and a non-sport concussion. War concussions are often complicated by PTSD. That is a entirely different struggle.

Your age has an impact on recovery. Before 25 years old, recovery is more likely. The brain is still maturing and changing. After 25, the brain is in a static condition. It will recover but not like at a younger age. Once the person reaches 40 or so, the brain will struggle to recover and will start an age related slow decline.

A concussion, or multiple concussions will be tough on the older brain. Also, for women is in a pre or peri menopause stage, the low progesterone will leave the brain more vulnerable to injury. It is not uncommon for hormones to start changing in women as young as 40.

I am glad to hear you hubby only commented about your personality since your last concussion. A more critical comment would be a worry. Work hard to understand your emotional symptoms. You can overcome the emotional flatness with good choices and disciplined behavior.

Understanding your deficits from a clinical point of view can help with the work-arounds and other accommodations you need to have a successful and full life.

Have you considered having a neuro-psychological assessment? It will help you understand your dysfunctions. It may also help you understand your capabilities of maintaining a job. I had to finally give up trying to work regularly and applied for Social Security Disability.

If you have any specific questions regarding the research you were hoping to find, feel free to ask them here. I have been seriously following the research for over a decade and less intensely for three decades.

Hope we can help.

My best to you.

[Ephie]

Originally Posted by Mark in Idaho

Ephie,

As the elder statesman LOL on this forum regarding Multiple Impact Syndrome, welcome to Neuro Talk.

I am confused by your request for information about multiple non-sport, non-war concussions. There is no difference between a sport concussion and a non-sport concussion. War concussions are often complicated by PTSD. That is a entirely different struggle.

Your age has an impact on recovery. Before 25 years old, recovery is more likely. The brain is still maturing and changing. After 25, the brain is in a static condition. It will recover but not like at a younger age. Once the person reaches 40 or so, the brain will struggle to recover and will start an age related slow decline.

A concussion, or multiple concussions will be tough on the older brain. Also, for women is in a pre or peri menopause stage, the low progesterone will leave the brain more vulnerable to injury. It is not uncommon for hormones to start changing in women as young as 40.

I am glad to hear you hubby only commented about your personality since your last concussion. A more critical comment would be a worry. Work hard to understand your emotional symptoms. You can overcome the emotional flatness with good choices and disciplined behavior.

Understanding your deficits from a clinical point of view can help with the work-arounds and other accommodations you need to have a successful and full life.

Have you considered having a neuro-psychological assessment? It will help you understand your dysfunctions. It may also help you understand your capabilities of maintaining a job. I had to finally give up trying to work regularly and applied for Social Security Disability.

If you have any specific questions regarding the research you were hoping to find, feel free to ask them here. I have been seriously following the research for over a decade and less intensely for three decades.

Hope we can help.

My best to you.

Thanks, Mark.

I probably should have included more information as to my age, prior physical and mental state and the fact that my issues started to compound after my second concussion (age 30). I understand the physiology you speak of, I didn't want to get too wordy, nor focus too much on myself. Hubby was being funny. He's been through most of this with me and sometimes joking about the situation keeps me from falling off the deep end.

Just wondered if research had been done on multiple concussions from non-sport subjects or subjects with excellent health. The overall physiological state of an athlete should, in theory, contribute to the healing of a brain injury. I was just wondering if there was research that took into account the overall physiological state of a non-athlete and how that may or may not be a contributing factor to the healing process of a brain with multiple concussions.

I've only just begun reading up on this multiple concussion thing. Recent meta-analysis shows inconclusive results but that some correlations do need further investigation. I just want to be fully informed prior to talking with my Dr. about my revelations.

Thanks again, Mark.

[Mark in Idaho]

Ephie,

I don't think physical conditioning would change the impact the recovery from a concussion. The research into athletes has more to do with return to play or maintaining conditioning. The brain is quite good at regulating blood flow regardless of the condition of the subject. The concussed brain may be deficient in this blood flow controls.

Yes, as a basic rule of thumb, good blood flow is important. But,,,,the brain heals or restores cells health during sleep, specifically REM sleep. The important condition needed is good REM sleep with adequate oxygenation.

The non-athlete may actually heal better due to their lower body stress levels. Athletes tend to want to get busy with conditioning. The muscular cell damage/repair stronger exercise cycle would, at least in my mind, put extra stress on the body with the waste from muscle repair.

Research into concussions is driven by the sports industry. There is very little research that does not have a sports or warfare foundation. The return to play or return to war or return to society after coming home from war dictates the need for research. The remainder of concussion subjects are left out of the equation.

To add to this problem, the other concussion subjects do not fit any demographic group causing a concentration of post concussion care as is the case with the VA Hospitals and sport/team physicians. Even the sports research is slow. Dr Robert Cantu aided by a pathologist in Boston first notice CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy) over 20 years ago. But,,, Nobody paid any attention to their published research.

It was only when players started complaining and suing the Football Players Association for being unresponsive to their needs that things started to happen. It has been a long hard uphill climb even after the stats of early dementia and suicide became known.

There are so many unknowns regarding the intensity and progression of concussion symptoms due to the many falsehoods about concussion promoted by the ignorant healthcare industry. Researchers are just starting to promote the idea of properly tracking in medical records the impact reported regardless of the absence of immediate symptoms.

They have found that many neurological problems reported at a later date can be traced back tot eh undocumented concussion. Without the prior concussion in the medical record, these problems are often diagnosed as psychological or psychiatric in nature and cause.

I have a note of my concussions suffered over the past 56 years. Most would not be considered concussions by the medical establishment. My knowledge tells me otherwise. To make matters worse, many concussions are forgotten or even never remembered due to the immediate amnesia of the moments of the concussion.

The brain struggles to store information that is in a local time proximity to any brain trauma. It does not necessarily relate to the intensity of the impact. Research shows that impact force does not have a direct relationship to immediate or prolonged symptoms. There are just too many variables.

If you have specific questions, you will likely find more information here than at your doctor's office.

btw, If you use the "Post Reply" button to the lower left of the bottom post, it will not quote the last post. Not much need to waste so much screen space.

As a last comment, being lethargic and inactive does not help with recovery. The brain does need some stimulation. The intensity of that stimulation is dependent on the reaction or relapse tendencies of the subject.

Have you downloaded and read Dr Glen Johnson's TBI Survival Guide? It is fabulous. It is at www.tbiguide.com

If you find it helpful, send him a few bucks to help him keep his web expenses covered. He does this as a service from his heart.

Hope this helps.

My best to you.

[PCSLearner]

Hi, Ephie! Mark is, as always, full of great information here. I would like to add that we found some great information that eventually helped my daughter through the VA. Better armour and different types of explosives have changed the way our soldiers experience head injury (less fatal, more subtle and long-lasting).

NPR had a great series if you google "NPR" "Head Injury" "VA" I think you'll find it.

In every way I can tell my daughter is back to her pre-injury status, but I just can't help but come back here once in awhile to see if I can help someone in some way.

[Mark in Idaho]

PCSLearner,

Was your daughter injured while serving in the military?

The VA is doing lots of work with concussion. Unfortunately, they appear to have ignored the work done by Robert Thatcher Ph.D. with qEEG at Bay Pines VA Hospital in Florida.

[PCSLearner]

No, she was 15 years old, just about to start her sophomore year of high school. Not military

We just found research through VA website and information on NPR about VA research into vision therapy.

[Ephie]

Thanks for all the info, Mark and PCS. I appreciate it. I talked with my staff neurologist, who brought me up to speed with the research, and lack thereof, and answered/confirmed my questions/concerns.