[Alffe]

"In contrast to the suggestion that faith is "believing what you know ain't so," perhaps faith is believing that there's no way of knowing whether it's so or not.

It's not a matter of faith to believe that if you mix red with blue you'll get purple, or that one and one makes two.

In our extremity of wanting to know for sure that our loved one...understood us, forgave us, is happily in Heaven, watches over us, ______(we can fill in our own), there is no way to know.

What is at issue is whether God, the universe, is to be trusted. That, too, is a matter of faith, and from it come all manner of subsidiary questions.

A man well schooled in theology and life says that his answer to these questions of afterlife is that whatever wonderful scenario we can imagine for life after death, God's gifts will be infinitely greater, and suprising. Not a bad conjecture when one is mulling things over. And over. And over.

Healing After Loss by Martha Whitmore Hickman

[BJ]

I know that God caught Mark, my brother, when he took his own life.
I know with a firm faith that one day I will see him again.

Without my faith that God's words are true, I would be so lost.
It doesn't make it easy-just more tolerable.
I'm still human, God still loves me.

He loved Mark and all of us - He knew our pain, He cried with us, He carried us when we probably didn't even realize it. He caught each of us when we couldn't go on another second.

They are with Him now watching over me. And will be there to meet me when it's my time to die. He is no longer in pain, he's in a place that hurt and pain are not even memories.

I know I've said this before but like a mother holding her infant baby in her arms for the first time, that, I believe, is the best image we have available to understand how a suicide victim (most often an overly sensitive soul) is received into the next life.

This was read at Mark's funeral and I'm holding on to this image, he's okay now, he's whole again, he's full of life, he doesn't hurt anymore and he's playing baseball with the angels.

I Just Want You to Know

I was sitting here in Heaven
And having a wonderful day.
I started thinking about you
And all the things I didn’t get a chance to say.
I don’t want you to worry about me
And please don’t shed any tears,
Because I Will wait for you in heaven,
If it takes a hundred years.
Everything I had on earth
I have in heaven too!
My first day here
My body became brand new.
It is really pretty here
And I love my new home,
Although your heart is broken
Because my body is gone.
My love will always be there
As you go along the way,
Just take a peek inside your heart
There is where I’ll stay.
Know that I loved my family
And all my friends too,
My thoughts will be with each of you
Your whole life through.

[Alffe]

That was beautiful BJ. Our grandson Matthew would have been 16 yesterday had he lived. I'm going to copy that and send it to my daughter. Matthews teacher remembered him at his classes graduation and said such wonderful things about him.

And I agree with you...Mark is OK, maybe he's made friends with Michael and Matthew...maybe they've started a team. *grin

[Alffe]

Oh boy, BJ. "most often an overly sensitive soul".....That was our Michael...I have trouble talking about him because .....because...
I guess we all feel that our loved ones were unique...and words to describe them fail to capture how special they were to us......I cannot do justice to "his person"...sorry moi, I just can't. But!..try to picture a shooting star..................~sigh

[BJ]

The term rational suicide is an oxymoron. When a person chooses to die, he or she is so distorted by pain – physical, mental or emotional – that the world is reduced to a solitary alternative. Suicide is an anguished response to loss: the loss of faith, of a loved one, of health, of mental powers, of money, of the ability to fight. As we survivors separate ourselves from the hopelessness and desperation that propelled our loved ones to end their lives, we start to mourn their deaths, not their suicides, and begin to heal from the very real pain deep with us.

No Time to Say Goodbye – Carla Fine

Alffe I wish you could talk about Michael more. All I ever here you say is about his boisterous laugh. My mom was so betrayed by Mark’s suicide that for a while she took down every picture, every memory of him from the house. She even said to my dad that I never had a son. Being a sibling survivor I saw the pain in my parent’s faces, I saw their anguish. How could I bring them any more pain by talking about it? Mark’s chair at the dining room table was immortalized forever and I couldn’t fill it. I was the only one who could have saved him, I was the last person to speak to him, I was closest to him.

I had a very strong need to feel his pain that led to tying that noose around his neck. It took me a long time to figure out, but I finally accepted the idea that I can’t feel his pain, and if I ever were able to feel his pain, I’d have to do the same thing. Hence my attempts, I wanted to feel his pain. But now I know the hurt, the pain, will never go away. I just wish that God could send him back here on earth where he belongs. But that won't happen, so I live on in his memory. I'm trying to remember his life, not his death or how it happened.


MICHAEL IS A SPECIAL STAR

When you feel lonely, when the person you love passes away,
Look to the night sky after a clear day.
The star that to you, appears to be bright,
Will be your loved one...looking upon you during the night.
The lights of Heaven are what show through
As your loved one watches all that you do.
When you feel lonely for the one that you love,
Look to the Heavens in the night sky above.

I don't know why my "insert image" button doesn't work

[Alffe]

bump because it's so quiet in here and I'm ready to "get over" my birthday thread and wrens computer died and I needed a break from the book I am reading and and and.....

[Wren]

Sending you hugs, dear Alffe.............

I just carried my little lap top in from that LONG, LONG stay in the shop and it's acting just like it was before --- acting like it's sick. ???

At least it's back. Oh, how lonesome I was. And I STILL can't get into my mail box.

[DMACK]

" Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest".

Thats what the bible says, for those distraught...and if your feeling suicidal distraught's a good word....

speaking as one who survived a suicide atempt...in the depth of despair........ sanctuary or a haven of comfort is not around its all negativity


I will ask you all to think of an important time in your life................

maybe a holiday you plan.....or sad news of serious ill health of someone you know.

what happens in both tradagey and euphoria is assimilation...........you start noticing things around you are the same.............someone else has cancer.......Florida is on tv all the time...........

in truth we decipher what we see and hear...it would take place without our planned holiday...or relatives ill health...but beause its on our minds we see things in minute detail and more often

19 years on and with honesty.....at the time of my atempt it was in my head thinking death and planning my demise..............[never aired that before]


my thoughts and believe me they were mine and no others........perpetuated to my action.................

was that anxiety...depression...spontinaty...desperation... fear...

YES ALL OF THEM/.........................Do i regret it yes,,,,,,,,,[because i failed]


failure made me realise the hurt......the hurt i never saw whilst consumed with the thought of death by my own hand...........a spell that consumed my thoughts for some days leading up to the act.

some say its just an act of selfishness
....................may be it is.............or maybe its an ultimatte act of self-ness.................one split second of thinking of yourself...[even if the thought is unwell................" Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest".



David

[Alffe]

"Our minds are quite manipulative particularly when cultivated by fear. Do not fear your suicidal thoughts. Do not be ashamed of them. Do not let them be a negative aspect of your being. Accept them..and post them here or talk openly about them to friends and family...

A suicidal thought is NOT initiated by the mind as a way to harm the person.
It is initiated by the mind as a misguided attempt to protect the person. By understanding its intent you will be able to redirect it with self esteem and self love in place...fear will not be able to stimulate the negative cascading psysiological affects that make so many of us tire to the point of accepting suicide as the solution."

~Pter

(((David))) I could never say it as well as Pter who fought that beast until the day he died, a natural death. He understood how exhausting a battle it was....but he won it every time.

So glad to have you back. We need to hear your words of wisdom.

[DMACK]

Manipulative is a great description of the lure suidal thinking has....its like a lament...an open fire burning,,,,a strong coffee...a beautiful sunrise or sunset...its birds singing on a crisp morning....................................

WAIT.....................All these things depict a sereene and happy life.....................its the flick of a coin heads or tails..............

one day these scenes lift us and enthrawl us with happiness.....the next day they depress us with a misguided view that we may never witness happiness again.....

we therefore drift aimllessly into depression which polutes not only the mind but our soul....and its the disease of the soul that brings on suicidal ideology...."nobody cares" " no one understands me" "i'm on my own".................."they would be better off without me".......................


We at this stage need help....but its at this stage we dont ask for it....and nobody notices that we need it.


David