In her case, when is enough ENOUGH? I mean, she just had 85% of her stomach removed (in the weight loss surgery). She told me "you know I can't drink after having this surgery, this will force me to stay sober".

I thought about it and I came to the conclusion that an addict will try and find a way to do their addiction, and if a person has bariatric surgery and has to live on liquids for quite some time, WELL, WINE IS A LIQUID....RIGHT?

She lives in another state so I really don't know what's happening, but I really do think that unless one goes to AA and follows a program (no matter what that program is, one has to follow a program), well... all the surgery, and all the talking is not going to make one sober.

I wonder when enough will be enough for her

thanks much

Mel

"I wonder when enough will be enough for her"

Mel, I have often pondered the same, and in my journey through sobriety, and I have witnessed for some, that enough, is never enough

I lost a very close friend to this disease a month ago..We are the same age, 57, and have known each other since high school..We both became commercial fishermen, drank in the same bar, and near the end I was doing heroin with him..Booze was more my problem, and drugs were more my friend's problem..I got sober in 1989, my buddy got sober in 1993..I was his sponsor for 3 years..He was homeless untill he went into the Salvation Army program for 6 months, then his folks trusted him enough to take him in when he got out

I watched him put his life together..He got his drivers license back after 20 years without one..He sought out his ex-wife through a lawyer, to make arrangements to begin paying his back child support..$40,000..It took him about 13 years to pay it, but he paid back every last cent..I saw his two boys come back into his life..I was watching a miracle take place..The changes his recovery brought into our small town stuck out like a sore thumb..He was truly a power of example, and he helped others find their way to a sober life

Then a couple of years ago in his 15th year of sobriety, he got in a toxic relationship with a woman who was using, and he tried to "save her"..He went on the roller coaster ride with her, and one day he took a Percocet out of his sisters medicine cabinet, and popped it to deal with the anxiety, of this crazy relationship

This began the 2 year downward spiral that led to his death..I took him to detox, a 5 day dry out

He kept slipping and sliding, and about 10 months later he was found half naked stumbing around town, and was rushed to the hospital for a heroin overdose..He was in a coma on life support for four days..I went and visited him as soon as he was well enough to have visitors..He was slurring his speach and walking with a cane from brain damage..In his own words he told me..'I almost bought the farm"..He was in the hospital for about a month

You would think this would be enough to scare anyone back into recovery..I thought it was..But I was wrong

He was bankrupt, lost his apartment, and ended up sleeping on someones couch, because his family had had enough..Then he totaled his car and had no transportation, no money, no nothing..I talked him into going to an inpatient facility for depression, cuz I feared for his life at this point..He stayed for 6 weeks, got out and was doing a little bit better, but he had lost eveything, and couldnt emotionally get it back together..He would call me for rides twice, three times a week, to do laundry, food shopping etc..Sometimes food shopping was at the dollar store.........

What was frustrating was, here was a man who knew what to do, and how to do it though the 12 steps.....and he couldnt do it

I got a call a few weeks ago on a Sunday night, from one of my sponsee's, who was a mutual friend, and said.."John died this morning from an overdose"

The police, and the rescue squad came to the house...John was home alone, so that means he made the 911 call himself..But as quickly as they respond in our small town, they didnt get there in time

When it hits this close to home, it really puts the fatal nature of this disease into perspective..I cant believe how it took away a man who had come so far..But I watched it all happen, and no matter what I said or did, I was powerless to stop it

We often say, when someone passes on, in a cliche kind of a way, that so and so is in a better place..I witnesssed my friend John's relentless emotional pain of hopelessness and helplessness, that this disease inflicts upon its victims, and I can say with certainty, that my friend is definately in a better place today

But for the Grace of God go I, and many others

Steve

HI.

I don't know why I just found this reply from you. Glad I did. I posted a new question tonight. You might not know it but you helped me.

I cannot help my friend. She has to help herself. If she doesn't she will die. I think this is what I will tell here the next time she calls me and she's drunk and says she doesn't want to live anymore.

Thanks for helping me (even though it's been many months). And I apologize for not replying to this post.

Been going through lots of stuff with my son (who is a gambler) and who I haven't seen in 10 years).

Hope all is well at your end.

Melody

Melody..Please excuse me for not responding to your earlier..I have Parkinsons, so I am usually posting there, and thrugh my absent mindednesss, I forget about this forum

I sincerely hope that your friend is ok

Hi, and I hope that your friend can find some help. There are other options besides AA. AA does have a good reputation however, and she just might decide she likes it. Most communities have 'resource centers. This center may find some counceling for her to receive some private help. Ususally the payments work on a sliding scale, according to your income.
I have turned to this center myself a number of times, and found the direction I needed. Also the local hosptial in your area, may have an out patient program. I do wish your friend all the best. Ginnie

Hi Ginnie and Steve:

Unfortunately she has not sought help and continues to drink. It is what it is. I know I can't help her so when she is like that, I simply say I have to go and will speak to her at another time.

We all have our crosses, issues, whatever. Some find solace in the church, some find solace in eating, some find solace in drinking. I find solace in sprouting. This is helped me lose weight, control my diabetes, feed us and I also help others. And I received a nice compliment from our physician yesterday. I had taken my husband who was just diagnosed with diabetes on September 1st. His sugar on that day was 350. On that day I looked at him and said "you belong to me now". He laughed and said "okay". Now it's down to 100 or below. The doctor could not believe it. And I give him a bag of my sprouts also when we go there. And my husband is not on any medication and he lost 8 lbs in the past two weeks alone.

So little by little, I believe all we can do is try to help ourselves and if others seek our help, then of course we have to do what we can. But if one is determined to destroy themselves, well then, we have to do our best not to join them. It's not easy.

And I hope Steve that your Parkinson is not giving you too hard a time today.

Take care and thanks to both of you for responding.

Melody

Sheesh, aint that the truth. I have a quote that I like to use every now and then by JK Rowling. "Rock bottom became the solid foundation on which I rebuilt my life"

Remember that most addicts\alcoholics DONT have a problem. Its that simple. And until that day when you wake up and it hits you that you have lost everything, they will drink or use.

People want to help, but they run out of options.

AA, Celebrate Recovery and the like are great programs if they work for the individual. For me, I could not stand AA, not sure why. But I am still sober and its take a life damaging instance to wake us up. Whether it be health, DUI, divorce, depression, etc....it will happen. Just hope its sooner than later.

IF you can, stay with them, be a friend, no judging, just be there.

I have a question. When someone has so many problems (that are not going to away) and they go to the liquor store and buy the wine and get dead drunk and then the next day they call you and say "why should I not drink? WHY??" and we have HAD that conversation before and I usually respond 'Because you are on a road to nowhere and you are harming yourself" and they respond 'But I don't care" how does someone respond to "I don't care"


thanks much
Melody

Well, from experience, I got to the point where I didnt care if I died. I was not suicidal, I just got as drunk as possible and really did not care what the consequences were. When you get that far down, and crave the booze, the outcome is irrelevant. Your mind makes you think that what you are doing is rational, that its normal, that people perceive you as functional. Now, in hindsight, its almost embarrassing.

I bought a room at a local hotel (a popular chain) for a year. One whole year. I turned off my iPhone, didnt tell anyone where I was and hired a local lady to do my 'shopping' for me...total seclusion. I didnt care what other people thought, all I thought about was where the next drink was coming from.

To answer your question, I am not sure how you should respond. I know that I refused to listen to anyone, because I 'knew' what was best for me. Dumb.

I think they gotta find their rock bottom.

Addiction is a complicated disease, that I honesty believe begins at conception..From my first memories, there was something that I felt was wrong with me, that I was different than other people..I lived in my own little world, and felt uncomfortable in my own skin, and has no idea why?..It was like there was something missing in my heart and soul, and emptiness..Then at age 13, I was with some friends who were passing a quart of vodka around and a had a few swigs, and I loved he way it burned when it went down, and then it made me high, and medicated that emptiness and made me feel whole for the first time in my life..That was the carrot on the stick that led me to oblivion

I drank for about 23 years, and at about year 19, alcohol drove me back into that lonely emptiness once again..I couldnt live with it or without it..Then I entered a confusing quagmire, when the more I drank, the larger the emptiness and the anxiety got..The very feelings that I had escaped from came back with a vengance..I made attempts to sober up, and during those times, the thing that dominated my thoughts, every moment of my abstinance, was going out and getting drunk..It haunted me relentlessly, untill I coulnt stand it anymore, so I drank, and the mad circle stated all over again..It was like being lost in a maze with no way out

Then at year 22 I found heroin, and it "fixed" me for another year, and it made me feel whole again, from what had betrayed my wholeness after 19 years..I felt like I was on the road again..This is the insanity of addiction, and this is where your friend is at right now..On the road to nowhere

On the morning of Oct 30, 1989 I woke up very sick and hung over, and had this profound feeling it was over, and it was..I believe with all my heart that God did for me tha morning what I couldnt do for myself..I got active in AA and havent had a drink since..Through the application of the 12 steps I found myself, and inner peace

Ozzy Ozbourne has been clean and sober for about 6 years now

Here is a link to a song he wrote about his personal confusion with addiction, called "the road to nowhere"..(leads to me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849e8WraKCk