When the train finally crashes that's it.

Can you see the insanity of all this?

It's not your problem. No one can help either of them. They have to WANT to help themselves. Quiting comes from within not from other people.

Okay, GOT A NEW PROBLEM to lay on you!!

The 30 year old alcoholic in the hospital!!! He now thinks he can call me and say stuff like "Would you please tell my mother to get the F out of my business".

I said 'You may get away with that kind of language with your parents, but YOU WILL NOT SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT!!"

He apologized. But he feels that at 30, his parents should not speak to his doctors, call up the hospital to inquire about his condition, tell him what to do, get in his business, etc. etc.

With the first phone call (I hadn't spoken to this guy in 6 months). I was very diplomatic (I know how to talk to people without being preachy or bullying).

I simply stated "are you sure you want me to convey this to your parents". He went on and said "They have no right talking to my girlfriend, I didn't give them permission to talk to my girlfriend, blah blah".

I then said very quietly "this is the 4th time you've been hospitalized, your parents are very worried and this is natural. Don't you realize this?" He kept bringing up the fact that he's 30 years old, his mother drinks so she has no business telling him to stop drinking (I said "we are not talking about your mother right now, we are talking about YOU).

He said "Well, I'm not drinking right now, am I??" I said "you've done this to yourself 4 times". Your pancreas is shot..the next thing to go is your liver, you obviously need to go to rehab, but that is up to you".

He said: 'just tell my parents to leave me alone, I'm signing myself out, I can leave here if I want (he can't even stand up). I said 'why don't you listen to the doctors and do what THEY tell you".

He replied: '14 doctors said I could go home (that's not true), and 1 doctor wants me on 30 minute antibiotic infusions 2 times a day". I am bored to death, why should I stay here, blah blah".

Alan, then got on the phone and said; "I want to ask you a question, if you saw your mother lying on the road, would you help her or leave her lying on the road??" He said "of course I would help her". Then Alan said "what do you think your parents are trying to do for YOU??"

I then said "Listen to me, you're an addict, you have your own perspective on what's happening, your parents are your parents, they are worried to death about you (his parents have gotten absolutely no help from the social workers, from the doctors, from ANYONE. He can't be made to go to rehab.

His mother told me last night "I have to go to work, I cannot have him come home" Well, I had to tell her that he phoned me and I had to tell her what he said. I said "it's not easy telling parents this message, but do you want to hear what he said?"

She said "please". So I just told her.

Everything that comes out of his mouth is just NOISE. I once watched Intervention, and unless an Addict says "I'm going for help, or I'm going into rehab", then everything else that comes out of his mouth is just NOISE!!

All this guy is spouting is just noise.

He just called me again this morning. He said "Melody, please tell my parents to leave me alone, they just came to my hospital room, and they yelled at me, I want them to leave me alone, I'm 30 years old, I can make my own decisions.

I just said "Your decision making has not been working for you, has it??" I then said 'Please listen, you need to stop drinking and only you can make this happen, not your mother, not your father, not anybody, only you".

He said 'Why can't everybody just leave me alone"? I said "when your parents adopted you 30 years ago, they brought you into the house and they loved you and took care of you, I was there from the beginning". He said "they never gave me anything, I worked for it all".

I said 'you forget one thing, I was there from the day they brought you into the door, you have a perception of life that is screwed up because of your thinking. Perhaps one day, if you get clear in your head and all this is out of your system, then you can look at your parents and really see what's going on and what your behavior has done"?

He said 'but how can my mother tell me to stop drinking, she drinks, and she blames me for her drinking".

I then said the following:

"you are absolutely right. When we put something into our mouths, we do it, no one else does it for us, so your mother can't tell you to stop drinking, BUT I WILL SAY ONE THING, .....YOUR MOTHER HAS NOT BEEN HOSPITALIZED 4 TIMES WITH A SWOLLEN PANCREAS, SWOLLEN LIVER, NEEDED INFUSIONS, ETC. ETC. AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR HERE??

He then said "she's on the other line, I have to go, I'll call you later".

I believe I have said it all and I have no more to add.

When he calls me back, do you think the following would be a good idea?

"I've said what I have to say, I think you should go into rehab and I don't want to be redundant, have a nice day, then I should say good bye BUT not just hang up the phone, but wait and see if he gets my point.

Or do you think I should say this and hang up.

Is there a better way to phrase this?

Thanks much
P.S. Sorry if I got the two phone calls mixed up. One was last night and one was 30 minutes ago. Essentially each phone call was the same. He wants it his way, and he doesn't see it anyone else's way!!!

(I really think I've made my point and I shouldn't have to add anything else, right??)

I certainly don't have all the answers. I can see your point about it's his mother and all, BUT......if he feels they are overbearing, then he has a right to feel that way!

Obviously, he is drowning out his anger with the alcohol. Dying a slow and painful death!

Yeah, if he wants boundaries around his parent's involvement in his life.....swollen pancreas or not, he has a right to personal boundaries.

I've had to separate from my own mother for a bit this summer.....I NEED to! My own personal wellness!!! She's a wonderful woman, and no I would never leave her on the side of the road, BUT....like your friend there....I'm in my early 30's with my own family, I don't need her being overly involved in my own life. And yeah...even while attempting sobriety....she's not clean and sober like I am trying to be.

Your friend has some valid points! He has a right to validation for his anger.

Co-dependency lead to more and more drama.....

Why does it seem like you are trying to mediate this family??? {don't mean to sound harsh in tone with that....}

I know this woman since she's 21 years old. She lost a child in her youth and we've been friends. I also lost my own son to addiction. I have found productive ways to deal with stress and we speak on the phone every day. She has asked me what she should do and my answer has always been "go to Al-anon meetings".

I'm not trying to mediate anything. He now calls me thinking I will turn on his mother. I told him the truth and I stand behind what I said.

There is a difference between being a friend to someone and being a co-dependant.

You probably get the impression that I am trying to mediate because I came here asking for advice on what to say to the kid if he calls me again.

I didn't want to say the wrong thing to him.

Oh, just to update, the guy is home, locked up his bedroom and won't talk to anyone. He signed himself out against doctor's orders. He is swollen, can barely walk and his eyes are bugging out of his head.

He is a very sick individual who won't listen to anyone.

The fact that he could die is a very frightening thing for EVERYONE to even think about.

You did what you had to do to separate yourself from your mother. In this particular case, the guy wants his parents to leave him alone .....then he comes home and lives in their house, expects them to wait on him hand and foot, make him meals, and then he shouts to the world "don't get in my business??!!!

I don't think so.

And let me ask you a question. You say it sounds like I'm trying to mediate this family. What do you think an interventionist does. He speaks to the people involved and gives them the information to deal with whatever they have to deal with and gives them the tools to work with.

My friend knew that I went through much of this with my own son and she knew I went to Gamblers Anonymous, and that I even have my forum and I help other parents.

I see nothing wrong with helping people if they ask for it. But only if they ask for it.

Hi Gals!! I beleive with every stitch of my being that everyone needs to lovingly detach from this fella! I think everyone could suggest rehab again...if he refuses...get tough and stick you your guns!! I would not put a roof over is head...buy him anything ot take him anywhere unless it is rehab....no calls unless it is to ask for a ride to rehab...cut ties and truly mean it...this may be very difficult but it could end up extending his life. He will take take take...if you let him!!!

Tell me exactly step by step how she can do this. No one will help her. The law is on his side. She has asked cops, judges, social workers, absolutely everyone. They say he's not breaking the law. It's his domicile so he can live there.

I completely agree that she should not cook for him, buy him anything or cater to him. But (and this is where I'm completely lost). He called me two hours ago telling me she is driving him crazy telling him he can't drink in his own house.

I just said "you need to go to rehab".

She called me (I heard her voice and I knew immediately that she had been drinking).

I said 'how on earth can you rationalize what you did tonight?" Your son is an alcoholic, you are trying to get him into rehab, and you are on the phone with me and you've been drinking??, are you out of your mind??"

She said "Well I don't know, I don't know any other way to cope".

I then said "I cannot help either of you, you need to get help as much as he does".

I then said: "you cannot tell anyone not to drink when you've been drinking, do you not see the illogic in doing this".

She said 'yes I know".

I then said; "have a good night, I have to go".

No one is going to do anything.

She drinks to cope with his drinking!!!

THIS I DO NOT GET!!!

GOOD LORD.

Anyway, I'm not going to post any more because my part in all this is done. I can't help him. I most certainly cannot help the mother (if she's drinking the wine in her room every night just so she can cope with HIS drinking).

It's like a vicious circle.

I've never heard of anything like this in my life.

They all need to go to AA.

Talk about denial!!!

Oh well.

Did my best.

Now it's up to them!!

I do thank all of you for your sage wisdom.

What differentiates when a person is an alcoholic? A very dear friend of mine whom is an alcoholic said: When drinking becomes needing rather than wanting.

I felt she summed it up pretty well. I have taken drinks before, I also grew up with a father that was a 'weekend' alcoholic, most of my uncles were alcoholics, one I never saw sober. When I went out with friends, I didn't have a problem not drinking...I was the designated because I was the non drinker. Because of growing up with alcoholics, I refused to have more than two drinks.

Then my mom got cancer, I went on a binge for about two months, twice a week, mostly on weekends. I realized this was not an answer, I stopped...I will have a glass of wine, until last month it was over 5 years that I drank anything at all. The occasion for the last month glass of wine...a celebration...

My father put it rather plainly once...If you like drinking, don't do it!!
I have seen what it does to people, friends and family. MelodyL, I think your friends need some serious counseling, and I hope things work out for them.

You people that have been sober, even for 7 days...

HOORAY!!!! HOORAH!!! Remember you have people on your side!!!

My DH will not admit it, but he is an alcoholic...he drinks every day and as soon as he gets off work.

Melody.....I think Mommas kids said somthing so correct....this family needs councelling. For your own sanity...because an alcoholic can strip you of that...I would suggest that to this family the next time any of then contact you. In councelling they will help her see what she is doing to enable the drinking to continue and correct it!! She would be amazed at how she will feel by taking that kind of control!!
I am so tired...need to go to bed..will pop in in the morning!!
Love you all oodles and bunches...

Obviously this guy in rehab hasn't reached HIS bottom yet.

Personally, I don't believe in rehab. I think people go into rehab FOR other people and not for themselves. Forget Outpatient rehab, what a joke that is.

He is an Alcoholic Period. He has to want to stop for HIS Own reasons not for reasons fed to him by others.

It's nice that people love him and care about what's happening to him but really that has nothing to do with the little person inside his body who CRAVES Alcohol. That little person is calling all the shots as long as he drinks. His little voice is louder than anyone outside him.

Let this guy fall. Leave him alone. Stop giving him advice, he isn't going to listen anyway. You are just wasting your breath. HE has to come to this decision on his own BY himself. If he does drink himself to death it's not his fault, he is an Alcoholic. Like I have said before, there are some people who just never get it, they can't grasp the concept of "Just don't drink TODAY".

If you do speak to him again just ask him: "Can you go ONE day without a drink?" See what he says. Pouring alcohol down his throat IS the problem. Stop that and things will improve. Things are just so much worse DRUNK.

I will add in case you didn't read this before, I am in my 16th year of Sobriety and I drank for 20+ years daily. So I DO know what I am talking about.

And sometimes, like your later post hints at.....you have to 'let go' ...

They ALL need help in that household. Came to you, got your emotions involved and then did what alcoholics do best...ignored your advice, because it didn't fall into their desire to drink catagory!

Of course you want to care, you've known these people for years! Of course you want to intervene, but neither one of them are able to look at themselves and realize that they BOTH are contributing to this fiasco.

She's "blaming" her son for her drinking....that's a sign of "denial" in my book....

Best of Luck on your detachment from this family!