Sounds like you've been through the ringer with your son. I'm sorry that he's been manipulative of you, your husband and your emotions. It's tough. It also sounds like he didn't learn his lesson about Vegas----after all a recovered gambling addict wouldn't tell you that they need to be rich to not lose their shirt?

What is Second Life all about anyhow? Sounds like enabling of poor choices and decisions, no?

As far as all the dx's except the aspy one, very, very typical. You mention GA, is that the state where he went through the educational system? I find it amazing how very different all 50 States can be when it comes to learning disabilities, etc. With the focus on something being 'wrong' with a childs personality just seems/feels so very wrong to me. At least with aspy/autism the focus can state, hey, there is something wrong neurologically, then modify behavior from there....less pressure on child's self-esteem/worth, if that makes sense....

(I know, I digress....my middle son has a developmental delay, at 3yr that's as far as a dx goes...I know what I believe him to have, but am letting time and patience play a hand at this stage...doing my research about what was troubling led me to find that clip about aspergers and personality disorders....when I find that again, I'll pm you the link if interested?)

I'm glad to see you hanging in there

Hey Mel! I was looking over New Posts and saw your thread. Every sentence you wrote, lured me to read on. Do I know anything about addictions or gambling? No, not alot, but I can say that I think the way you have opened your raw emotions here is very brave and I think, good therapy for you.

As parents' we are always looking for that sign that our decisions about our children are the ''right'' ones. Your son is not a child, as parents' they are always our kids. In your situation, I couldn't begin to give you advice, but it seems you have tried everything imaginable to help your DS, yet he refuses your help. Why? B/C he doesn't want help; he just wants to feed his addiction. I almost felt your pain as I read on. Your'e hurting b/c he's your son and you know that there is a better life for him out there; yet he rejects it. What can you do? I don't think there's anything more you CAN do.

People who choose to be self destructive, rejecting help and living the merry go round lifestyle that he is living, probably won't change. I just feel so bad for you and Alan. As I get older, I have the mindset that for every action~ there is a reaction. I used to give a few dollars to a homeless guy in another town, who would stand by an intersection holding a sign declaring he was a homeless Vet. I later found out that he used all the money donated to him for alcohol and cigarettes, plus he had a home AND wasn't even a Vet!!!

I was duped and have since learned to keep my car window rolled up.

You have to keep your car window rolled up, Mel.

I thank you for sharing your story, as the pain you and Alan have gone through is evident. But, if one parent, child, friend or addictive person sees this thread and is helped by it, then you are to be applauded.


I will keep you and Alan in my prayers.....

DM:

Thanks very much for what you wrote. I've been KEEPING MY WINDOWS ROLLED UP FOR OVER 7 YEARS.

And the suicide threat thing? It's his way of manipulating others to get what he wants. Since he knows that if you call up 911, that by law, they have to pick you up, bring you someplace, feed you, take care of you, etc. etc., well, he's learned that he doesn't have to GROW UP, BE ACCOUNTABLE, or whatever words I'm trying to find to express his thinking mind-set.

He told me this 7 years ago, when he started the getting on buses and getting off of buses and calling 911. The only time it backfired was when he landed in San Francisco. You see, every other time he got off of a bus (with his suitcase), he would call 911, and some paramedic or firemen would show up, put their arms over him, bring him to a crisis center, or a psych ward and he would get a place for the night (or sometimes up to 2 weeks), he would then phone me (he used phone cards at the time). I would then get a phone call from each social worker in EACH psych ward that he ended up in.

But when he did this in San Francisco, the cops showed up in a patrol car and handcuffed him. They brought him to the ER and when they saw he was no danger to himself, they un cuffed him. He phoned me and said "wow, I never knew they arrest you when you call 911". I said "haven't you learned ANYTHING BY NOW"??

I got so tired of all the phone calls that I typed up his whole background (from when he was a kid), and every time a new social worker from a new hospital would phone me I would interrupt them and say "Hold on, give me your fax number, I'm going to fax you all the info".

I must have done this 20 or more times. He did this from Arizona through California.

He finally settled in Bakersfield CA.

Oh, a poster on this forum asked me if GA was where he got his education. GA stands for GAMBLERS ANONYMOUS. This is where I believe he should be attending meetings.

He grew up in Brooklyn NY, and was put in Special Ed classes from first grade through 3rd grade, whereupon he informed us "Mom, I don't want to be in Special Ed any more, I want to be in regular classes". I then said "with your compulsive behavior, do you think you can manage being mainstreamed?" (Just imagine having this conversation with a kid in the 3rd grade, because I forget his age when we had this conversation.

He told me "don't worry, I know exactly what I'm doing".

HE DID!!! the Special Ed department started mainstreaming him in regular classes. He did just fine. He went into full regular classrooms in the 4th grade.

How did he do in the 4th Grade? Never got less than 100 on anything and had no tantrums. His teacher told me "I never think he's paying attention because he looks out of the window all the time, but then the test results come in and he gets 100%".

Then the Citywide Math tests were given. He scored in the 98 percentile OF ALL NEW YORK. So we know he's smart. He just has no soul. He sold it by the way on EBAY 7 years ago for $15.00. He drafted a document saying "This document contains the soul of ....." Some idiot bought it.

I have no way of knowing if he was gambling before the age of 20 because he was always on his computer in his room. But then, there could have been THE INTERNET GAMBLING, RIGHT?

What parents do not know is THAT THEIR KIDS ARE DOING STUFF AND THE PARENT'S HAVE NO CLUE. No clue at all.

My friend has a 30 year old beautiful daughter who parties all the time. She lives with men, then breaks up and finds another one. She drinks. What did the mother say? "oh, I know my daughter likes to drink now and then, but I know she doesn't do drugs". OH REALLY? Then what did I find when I walked into a backyard party one summer evening, (quite unexpectedly) and the aroma of Pot was everywhere and I said "oh my god, your grandma is right behind me, put that stuff out" And they were waving all the smoke around.

No one had a clue. I did not say anything because these people were 30 years old and who would believe me anyway?

And one night, I was over at a friend's house and the grandma was there, and they had asked me about my son, so I told them the latest developments. the grandma said "but he's your son, you don't send him money?" and I said "now why on earth would I send a gambler money"???

And the response? She walked over to me, patted me on the arm and said "Because he's your son".

I then countered with "If a 2 year old is walking with his parents and wants to jump off of a building, do you let them?" and she said "of course not" and I said "how come?" and she said "Well, it would hurt him, and we have to protect them".

I then said "so that same two year old is walking with you 5 times a week and every time you take him out he wants to go on the horsey ride and it costs you one dollar. And you do this 5 times a week. Then you are out of money, and you say "no" to the two year old. What do you think the 2 year old is going to do?"

She said "oh, he'll have a fit, a temper tantrum, etc." I said "now why is he doing that". And she got a lightbulb moment and said "oh, because he got used to going on the horsey ride so many times that week".

I said 'BINGO"

Now translate that to a grown up person being enabled by their parents, given free room and lodging and the parents say "but he's my son, we owe him".

She shook her head sadly and said "I could never be so strong, I would have given him all the money he wanted".

I said "thank god, he's not your son".

I'm telling you, I learn new stuff all the time just from speaking to people.

People are afraid of losing their grown children's love, and the kids know this, and they prey upon it.

Not right.

Okay, I'll get off of my soap box.

But it was really good to share all of this information with you. If this even helps one parent to put on some boundaries and say "no", once in a while, and when the kid looks at them incredulously and says" "what do you mean, NO, you can't say NO to me, I'm your child".

The parent should say "That's exactly why I'm saying NO"

Melody

You know, Mel, I bet you are booked out!

But this one is really good. And it even uses some humor to get its points across.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NEo...um=4&ct=result

Instead of approaching the problems draining people have academically, this book explains how these emotional vampires get YOU and how YOU can minimize the damage.
Antisocial
Narcissistic
Histrionic
Paranoid
Compulsive

Are the ones explained, with real life examples. It doesn't go into WHY, but instead has HOW to deal.
Perhaps your library will have this? Or used on Amazon?

It is a very readable book. You will find people you know in it, and I can say I have read it 3 times now, when I am confronted with problematic people in my life.

One basic fact that is very important that I learned in it, is that people who are extreme, who USE manipulative traits to get what they want, are really addicts. They are addicted to the rush they get from their own behaviors of the neurotransmitters that they are low on. Gamblers for example are going for dopamine primarily. But others may be auto releasing norepi, or oxytocin...etc. Therapy as we know it, talk therapy may fail with these people, since talk is cheap and does nothing for them. It is their particular "rush" they are after.

I really recommend this book to anyone who has extreme people they have to deal with. I know I recommend books alot and people's eyes may glaze over, but this one is exceptional!

Ah my dear Mrs. D. Thinking about me as usual.

You're a doll!!

I shall look into this book.

I also, never knew about the "rush" you were talking about.

But, ON A MORE POSITIVE FUN NOTE, I was contacted (by Facebook of all places, which I DO NOT FREQUENT), but where I have my profile, well, friends from almost 40 years ago found me.

I got several emails from gals I used to ride the Express bus to work with YEARS AGO.

Imagine my getting an email form Linda and it says "hi Melody, this is Linda, remember me?? " and I'm saying to myself "who the heck is Linda, I KNOW A LINDA???"

Well, upon further reading, the BINGO went off and it was one of the crew that I used to hang with when I was around 24 to age 32.

We did EVERYTHING together, from Discos, to late suppers, to them coming over to my apartment (way before I married, and I was the ONLY GAL WHO HAD AN APARTMENT, THE REST LIVED WITH THEIR PARENTS...

And I would cook my famous chicken dinners. Oh, the memories.

We are now corresponding, and they saw my youtube videos, and they said "wow, look at you".

I'm now trying to coax them to share photos of themselves.

This is so much fun.

It's like a window to the past (the better past I mean).

I am looking forward now to phone calls from them, and maybe videos.

And get this. some of them have relatives with Aspergers, and they ALL have heard of Aspergers.

Will wonders never cease??

lol

Melody

Mrs. D.

I went to the link, and read the whole preview. I had NEVER heard of this terminology before. EMOTIONAL VAMPIRES.

That is indeed MY SON!!

There are various editions up on Ebay. One is an older version for under $5.00 with $3.00 shipping and the others are around $12 or so.

Are these the same book?

I mean, they have different covers.

Let me know.

I am definitely going to buy this book.

but you know what scares me? This guy Bernstein describes EVERY PERSON ON THE PLANET. No one is normal any more.

We all are SOME KIND OF VAMPIRE, now aren't we?

lol

Melody

We all have mixtures of traits.

When that mix becomes very skewed and one sided, then
that person falls into the personality disorder category.
When THAT becomes severe, they become "emotional vampires".
The psychologist who wrote that book, is a motivational speaker
who goes to businesses and addresses interviewing new employees or fixing conflicts that arise in the business world.
These extreme types can drain resources and cause terrible upheaval.

There is another book I got from the library, called Snakes in Suits. That one addresses mostly Narcissistic psychopathic types. One of the authors of this book is a Canadian psychologist who has specialized in psychopathy for 20 yrs. He has some really interesting books!
I have seen this dynamic unfortunately in action! I decided to retire in fact early because the place I worked at could not deal with this problem...it was running amok!

http://www.communities.hp.com/online...PPost4330.aspx

Mrs. D.

I clicked on the link and read the description of "Snakes in Suits"

Doesn't apply to my son.

He's a vampire.

God, can you imagine me 20 years or so ago, and some future person comes back in time and says: "Want to know how your son will turn out in 20 years?? He's going to be an emotional vampire".

Never would have thought such a thing.

But, AND THIS IS VERY INTERESTING. I've just learned info today from various sources and people I know. They have adult kids.

All have problems, none work, and the parents bought them all cars and apartments. I said to one of the people: "And she bought her son a car, WHY?????" and the person shrugged and said "Because he was breaking her chops, and she couldn't take it any more"

I just sat back and listened in amazement.

People enable because they can't take their adult kids breaking their chops any more???

Good Lord. I think I'm on another planet.

Melody

Good post Mrs. D.,
It's late here so I will read article in morning.
But it reminded me of this stockbroker I know who is the most cut throat, ruthless,unconsciencable,deceitful person you can imagine. He cons the elderly out of their life savings for a living. I saw him today and I got chills down my spine when he looked at me. I think he may have even sold his soul.

Aussie

Mel, big huge to you for being the strong mother you need to be. I wish my MIL could be as strong as you. My BIL is a drunk, manipulative abuser and hasn't held a job in years. He takes in women to support him and bail him out. He uses his mother to no end but she's an enabler and doesn't see her fault. I have told her so many times that we will NOT support him when she dies. She thinks he'll be fine. He compares himself to Jim in disabilities as if he's jealous.

Anyway, enough about that. My advice and take it or leave it is keep doing what your doing. My heart aches for you because I can feel your pain in all this. You have let go but your heart hasn't or you wouldn't be here posting.

He's an adult and you have to let him fall. I personally think all these organizations are enabling him as well. If he keeps getting bailed out he wont hit rock bottom.