Hi I am new to this forum, and am scared and frustrated. My 22 year old daughter was recently diagnosed as bipolar but she refuses to accept the label, and will not take any medications or see any therapists. She was hospitalized for 2 weeks back in October and the experience was beyond frightening - I am worried that it has left her with so many negative impressions that she may never trust a doctor again. She was drugged into a state of utter fog, and was given no particular attention in the hospital. She was released without clear instructions other than to see her psychiatrist for more medication. She lives on her own not near me, and while I have spent time with her, I can only do so for short periods of time because she gets angry and feels that she has no privacy. She seems fine on some days, then on others starts ranting and expressing serious paranoia about things that make no sense. If I try to tell her that she's not making any sense, she says that I just don't understand what is going on in her head. I wish she would get back to treatment but do not know how to make that happen.

If anyone out there has been through something similar - please let me know what might work. Am seeing a therapist myself, which is helping, but I still have no concrete advice on what to do next. Waiting for the next bad thing to happen is just scary, and the loss of control and influence over the kid's behavior is terrifying too.

thanks

Dear Ellen,

You blocked messages.
I can't send you two links.
I will try to do it from here.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11


edit

edit

Also try nami.org
They work with families.


I have to run. I'll be back.
The short answer is that you can't really do anything -- depending on what state you live in.

M.

Hi,

I understand how difficult this is for you. It is common for loved ones of people with bipolar. You need a support system.

nami.org will help you. That organization will help you learn to get a healthy distance from her willingness / nonwillingness to get treatment. Other parents can share stories.


Does she live in a city with a major teaching hospital?
Tell her to make an appointment with a psychiatrist at a medical school. Those folks are well versed in the latest research and are very thorough and consistent with patients.


Maybe she would benefit from your sending her some reading material.
I recently sent my aunt 2 copies of Bipolar For Dummies for my cousin. It's an easy read but covers everything. The book probably covers difficulty patients have in getting treatment and follow-through.

Her paranoia needs to be treated. People with paranoia can end up in jail. It can be ugly.


Most of us with bipolar have gone through something similar or are close to someone who has.


If she showed up at the ER in an emergency situation with symptoms of bipolar and mania, then the protocol is to treat with serious meds to bring the patient out of the danger zone. The patient feels over medicated at first. That seems consistent with what happens in most hospitals and why some of us work hard to stay well and out of the hospital.

What is not ok is that the hospital did not do any after care --- or what we call out-patient. Sometimes patients have day programs for 2-4 weeks after they get out where a therapist and psychiatrist sees them and they do group therapy. Sometimes, patients are also assigned a social worker to help them deal with the system.

Civil rights laws since the 1960s support a patient's right to refuse care unless they are
1. harmful to self
2. harmful to others
(3. unable to take care of themselves -- not sure of the legal terms here --- this applies in some states, not most.)

During the daytime, you can call the police department in the city / town where she lives and ask them how they handle mental health calls (Every town has different terms.) Sometimes when she is in serious trouble, you can have the police or a representative show up at her house to check on her without hauling her away to take her to the ER for evaluation by a psychiatrist.

Occasionally, the patient will come down from her high and reach a deep depression. They patient is more likely to seek help for depression than for mania.

I hope that this helps a little.
Find nami and find a teaching hospital.


Here is a link for how to deal with a family member in a manic state: basically you can't talk with them except to keep them calm:
http://www.camh.net/About_Addiction_...ies.html#mania

M.

That is a huge thing, the rejecting the lable. But accepting help is needed. The one experiance I had with my dd was that the med's their self specifically SSRI made her act innapropriate, paranoid, and aggressive with me. Especially Effexor, but that is a well tolerated med by many...Not her though.

Not to be cruel, but it was like we were living in a bad movie when she was on that. Klonopin, and trazadone were the best thing that worked.

I pray for you both, it is very difficult for a parent, especially if you do not live nearby to want your child well, and cared for. Especially the more caring you want to give, the more rebellious to handle their own life they become.

Knowing what space, and when to step in is a thread thin line and huge heart ache. Can you ask the meds, tried ones, the strength and if she would accept if you could look up side effects for her. Explain there are things that someone outside can see different and you just want the best, not what she thinks is working for her. If not on meds. explain that many people have something to keep them focused and use the same meds. It is about having a full live not a lable.....
Hugs to you Mom,

Welcome to NeuroTalk.

There is a condition that is medical/organic that gives symptoms resembling mental illness.

It is called Pyroluria.

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/pyroluria.html

What happens in essence is that a genetic flaw in processing heme (from hemoglobin) results in pyrroles being formed by the liver (these do not cause problems by themselves). However the pyrroles complex Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) and zinc in the blood and remove them. The result is a disruption of many metabolic actions we need to live normally, including neurotransmitter synthesis.

There is a urine test for this, and when positive high doses of both nutrients can return the person to normal functions.

http://www.kryptopyrrole.com/

Over the years I have seen some people on forums test positive for this, and have been corrected with treatment, and now lead normal lives. Pyroluria may cycle, and stress may provoke it with some resting times in between.

Doctors who deal with Autism called DAN doctors often treat this condition too. It is important to have blood work done to see if copper levels are normal with the high dose zinc given. Some doctors give the copper too, for this reason. Zinc in high doses blocks absorption of copper over time. The blood work is called a zinc/copper ratio.

I would suggest you read up on this, and consider it. Fixing it is easy and inexpensive, and does not require the sedating drugs that are often used for bipolar patients.

Mainstream doctors are not trained in this disorder in US. So you will not find help from them. DAN doctors, or those who know about the Pfeiffer Institute are the ones who understand this. Europe, also for example, has treatments more available for years now. US is just hesitant and centrally focused on drugs, for ALL people with emotional problems. (a cultural thing).

This is a link to help find a DAN doctor near you:
http://www.autism.com/pro_danlists_us.asp

Here is a link to a friend of mine, who found Pyroluria in her daughter (finally after much searching).
http://sites.google.com/site/jccglutenfree/pyroluria

She posts here sometimes, also on our Gluten intolerance forum. But that website of hers is very good, so please take a look at it.

Pyroluria is genetic and does not "go away". It can be managed however. It can cycle, and often stress will provoke it. But it may just cycle on its own depending on what the person is eating or taking at the time. So it may be difficult to pin down, and easily confused with Bipolar illness.

I answered on your other post. Will try again here.

Ellen,

As you and your daughter pointed out, bipolar is just a label. The important point is treatment and healing. Therapy and other forms of treatment can help and may be accepted even if not necessarily for the label "bipolar" but for specific problems in her life. Treatment CAN be accomplished even if the label is rejected.

You may also want to contact the parents at www.bpkids.org and take a look at Mark Hyman's book and blog: http://www.ultrawellness.com/blog and Wolfson's as well: http://www.itsnotmental.com

It may take time,and patience to get to the right road to help her. Love her,and be patient with her.

Has she had a recent bad experience that has made her angry,besides the 2 week hospital stay?

Doctors have made all kinds of mistakes with my treatments. Doctors, scientists,and the pharmaceutical industries are really only in the beginning of understanding what we with mental health issues are going through.

Give her time,and Love. BF