Hi Brain

sorry for the lengthy post here:

from what you say here and further on in the post, I would agree that she is not ready for help. We can just hope that she gets clean in jail or hits a major depression or a mixed state - then she will most likely want help. However she might only take the drugs long enough to get her feeling better, and refuse to stay on them afterwards, so she can get manic again...
I sometimes like the energy - depends if the mania is "clean" or not, and to what degree. Feeling physically agitated is not fun. The mental clarity and ability to do more or at least the impression one is doing more... feels good. Sometimes there is a sense of invincibility or infallibility - almost always sense of power - that feels GOOD, sometimes "special" powers - depeding what they are they can feel really good or really bad. Mania can be intoxicating in and of itself.

Consider her parents' teachings that she is defective and that this illness is her fault. I figure in her normal states her self-esteem is probably really low. When she's manic however she may feel confident and powerful. Those feelings may be worth it too her even if there are some bad aspects like feeling sped up or mind racing... remember that her self-medicating may quell some of the bad aspects without killing off the good.

Wrt the weight control - I don't know if my appetite lessens or if i just burn more when manic - but i have always lost weight in manic and prolonged hypomanic episodes - and yes I like that because when i'm depressed, i most often gain, so i usually have some pounds to burn.

Since i've been on medication, even when i've hit mania i've been medicated into a tamer state pretty fast and i don't get the weight loss. In fact, many meds cause weight gain - the best antimanicr i've ever had is Zyprexa - it serves other purposes too, but it really packs on the pounds. Depakote doesn't make me gain but seems like it makes it almost impossible to lose weight - even when i dieted i couldn't lose weight that was not the case before this drug. Could be the aging process and change to very sedentary lifestyle.

right. i can't speak from personal perspective but that would not appeal to me. the self-medicating has well i've been there... lol, but i did not like "the lifestyle" of it. i felt very much trapped in it.

I do not condone driving intoxicated and consider myself lucky never to have been caught doing so or WORSE, never to have had an accident of any kind let alone hurt anyone. I probably would have been hit with reckless driving on top of it - there is an adrenaline surge that goes with speed and when one is manic it's the kind of thing one really eats up like sugar cream pie (judgment impaired.)

But truly that is best left to rollercoaster rides (and not emotional rides, the kind you see at a boardwalk!) however i do understand that feeling - i remember feeling gleeful in my driving gymnastics...

unfortunate, but correct. may i ask her age? (ignore question if you'd rather not say - and btw you never need justify yourself or even respond, ever, if for any reason you prefer not to answer a question posted to you.)

I hear you. Unfortunately that is true of many individuals who have psychiatric problems, and mania is one of those states where you can lose sense of judgment.

I have something to add though. From all you've said, I can't help thinking she has a personality disorder slapped on top of the bipolar. Her upbringing could certainly trigger emergence of borderline, antisocial (does not mean one does not like socializing - has more to do with rebellious inclinations and deviant social mores), narcissistic personality disorders spring to mind but others possible. Of the three, the pathological lying and her "liking" criminal lifestyle would argue for antisocial personality disorder, but many other things must be present - only a doc could dx her, and as we've already said, there are several roadblocks to that, first being she doesn't want help.

Her parents' repeatedly dealing her the blame card for her bipolar could trigger a personality disorder. Although I know nothing of how she was treated before bipolar emerged, it seems reasonable to suspect there might have been other serious parenting deficits during her formative years.

We can keep the candle of hope lit for her, that something bad will happen - but not TOO bad, just enough - to give her an inside push to seek help.



~ waves ~