I am glad that you went to the gym and happy that you felt better, I am sure it was the lava lamp!:D
bizi

Hahahahaha ;)

Oh lava lamps ! :D

:hug:

Have a nice friday everyone ! It is raining here...

Hey Mayo

It stormed big time here also.

Its getting ready to again.

And then it will be really humid.

Donna:hug::grouphug:

My friends !!

My eye has been twitching since last week... You know how annoying it is !! I have taken vitamin B pills since the last 3 days and nothing !!

Do you know anything else that helps !? How much B12 vitamin can I take daily ?

Help !

So annoying ! :(

Majo,

B12 washes out. I am not aware of any guidelines about upper limits.
This chart might be helpful. http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/pages/pu...licationId=295

Magnesium might be helping me with eye twitching but I do not know.

Do you get enough sleep?

Mari

Mari and Majo

B12 is stored in the liver. The body stores up to one year's worth.

A couple months of folate (B9) is stored in tissues.

B1, B2, B6 wash out and must be consumed daily.

============================

Majo,

Just three days worth of B vitamins might be too little time to see results if you have a deficiency in one of them. Magnesium and a little zinc might help. Magnesium is especially likely to be implicated in tics/twitches. B6 is directly implicated in nervous system function, with the B vitamins in general being functional cofactors.

If you eat meat, it is highly unlikely you are B12 deficient.

waves

Mayo

I would try the magnesium as the others suggest.

Its something that helps with lots of things.

Donna:grouphug:

Thank you all !!!

Will buy me some magnesium today !! This is seriously driving me nuts !!! Aaaaaawwwww ! :mad:

Hi, Majo,

This sounds like a type of torture --- like being forced to do something unpleasant. I hope it is ok that you made me laugh. :cool:
===

When you are already calm, you can practice calming down.
Your body and mind learn the deep breathing and calming mantras when you are "in a good place."

When you are excited you can call upon the skills you have practiced when you were calm.
Maybe that makes sense.

Mari

Haha, Im the worst person calming down... or trying to.... :p

Now that I think about it... I have never believed in yoga and that kind of meditation... because I have always been pretty bad at it... now that I know Im borderliner, and now that science knows the problem with borderline personality disorder is that 2 areas of the brain doesnt work properly, it makes perfect sense !!! :eek:

Oh no kidding... I just realized that.... :rolleyes:

LOL

Annnnnnnnd my eye is still bothering.... :mad:

That is good, Majo.

I believe it is good to work on our strong areas.
Forget about the stuff that other people want us to work on.

It took my eye several days to catch up with the magnesium supplementation.

Mari

Mayo

Keep talking about us. You can sometimes talk your way through
it. We can help you. We can do this.

If nothing else we will always be here.

Donna:grouphug::hug:

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:
:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

My dear friend,
Hugs and love to you
Di

Majo - brain studies, therapeutic studies, emotional regulation
 

One of the neurological differences - to my knowledge - is based on neuroanatomical studies: the prefrontal cortex in borderline pts (along with other types of overexcitable pts) is less dense than in controls. Conversely, studies on yogis and others with great skill in emotional regulation have found these individuals to have a denser prefrontal cortex than controls.

Functionally speaking, prefrontal cortex density appears to be inversely proportional to the ability to regulate emotions. Moreover, prefrontal cortex density seems to increase with the practice of disciplines such as meditation.

-------------------
I apologize if I my explanations are murky. I can try to find links to studies - I am going on memory right now. :o if I bookmarked everything I read, my computer would explode.

The bottom line is that meditation and similar activities should help with borderline.

Even though biological evidence does not prove this for now, clinical studies specifically on borderline patients do support the theory. DBT has been shown to be effective for borderline patients, in contrast to CBT. What differentiates DBT from CBT is precisely the incorporation of Eastern techniques, such as meditation, to reduce stress and improve mindfulness.

waves

thank you for this waves

The most "important" characteristics about borderline patients' brains are:

1) After specific stimuli, we experience anger for example AND, contrary to "healthy/normal" people, our AMIGDALA (a zone in the brain) remains "active" instead of turning off, turning back to basal status, what we biologically call "feedback"....

2) At the same time, our PRE-FRONTAL CORTEX simply doesnt "turn on", never activates as it should after some stimuli...

This have been demostrated with funtional MRI for example and PET tests... :o

Based on this, I now understand why I cant "control" my mind... Neurons simply wont turn on or off :rolleyes: This means in borderliners case, we cant simply focus or calm down... Because our brains simply dont react as they should haha crap :o

Sorry for not explaining this in my previous post where I mentioned why I now understand why yoga simply doesnt work for me... My eye didnt let me :o

Thank you for all the love :hug: Im trying to learn how to calm down myself even when funtionally (scientifically proved) my brain wont calm down... :o

My eye is slightly better... But still... Aaaarrggghhhh !

Hugs for everyone !

Dear Majo

Yes, I realize that the amygdala is involved. It is essentially the amygdala-PFC communication that is "broken" - but apparently this can be fixed.

The studies I mentioned relate exactly to what you state: the (in)ability of PFC to regulate (inhibit) responses to amygdala activation, and suppression of feedback. This functional failure of the PFC apparently (as shown by PET studies) correlates with lower PFC density.

The other part of what I posted - about DBT - shows that disciplines involving meditation etc do help borderline pts. However, it is not something whose success is seen after a few attempts, or even a few weeks. Usually months of therapy are needed - sometimes a few years. Here, when I asked about DBT, I was told typical time frame (to treat a borderline pt) ranges from 6 mo to 2 years.

It does not surprise me that when you try to meditate, or relax, it doesn't work. As you say, your brain doesn't know how to do that. What I was saying is that there are studies that indicate borderline brains can be trained... with time. It may be worth adding that to start seeing benefits from such disciplines as meditation, a good bit of practice is needed even for a non-borderline person.

I hope that is clearer. If not, I am sorry. It is the best I can do. I will try to find the studies. I don't have them bookmarked and no idea how I ran across that stuff or where.

waves

p.s. I am glad your eye is improving. :):hug:

It was clear all the time :)

P.S I find "funny" that brain takes "ages" to get used to something, training it is hard even when it is "healthy", so Im wondering how long would it take with BPD... :rolleyes: FML ! Haha. Oh well :o

I like this Mari... Is like "focus on the good" you know...
There is just one person with who I think I have to control somehow my temper.... :o

Im reading some books... The first book about BPD was sorta boring... Haha my luck !

Fortunately these days off the lab are doing me good...

Love and hugs for everyone reading this thread :hug:

Waves and Majo,

Yes, one could start doing breathing exercises five minutes a day and then work up to five minutes twice a day.

Mari

You know what I really really need/want to learn/manage ? To calm down right after or quick enough after a "crisis"...

It feels horrible !

For example, I got ****** with a friend and somewhere inside me, I know Im exaggerating... I want to calm down and I cant ! Imagine that I have tried turning the computer off and going to take a bath... Instead of calming down, my anger exaservates (sp ?) and when I come back I end insulting everybody even when I love them !! :eek:

Annoying for everybody, me included ! I get scared sometimes thinking there are 2 mes !

Recently, when I feel an impulse, I think: Ha ! My amygdala is still over active ! That makes me smile and it helps me to calm down a bit... :o

Crazy much ? :rolleyes:

Majo,

1 hot shower

2 cold shower (try which one works for you)

3 long walk

4 jumping rope or doing something like a hula hoop

5 music -- I used to listen to one artist all the time. That way whenever I heard her, I knew to calm down.

6 rub your neck and shoulders

7 use a heating pad on your neck and shoulders

8 close the right nostril and breathe out of the left nostril

http://thehealthylivinglounge.com/20...eathing-today/


9 ice cold water in the right ear for depression
warm (not hot) water in the left year for mania-type issues
http://www.alternativedepressionther...wo-brains.html

Mari

Next time, try a very cold bath.

Mari

Ooooohhhhhhhh !!!

That list looks awesome Mari !!!

I will defo try point 9 and the cold water bath !!

THANKS A LOT !

No, not at all! Whatever helps... HELPS!!! So, that's not crazy, it's AWESOME! :D

I think it can be helpful in many scenarios when things go wrong, to understand why, even in part, even if we can't really change the scenario. I know that, for instance, it helps me when I am in a long depression to remind myself that all of my reactions are conditioned by the depression. Then, even though I might not know how I would react to something if I were healthy, I am aware that it might be different - and less negative. :) This at least helps not make things worse!

waves

Oh you are so right sister !!!

I like to think "feelings are not facts" they are "just" feelings :o When Im sad without a reason, I mean, a real fact, I like to tell to myself: "oh come on, this is not real... Sadness is just in your mind... Go to sleep, tomorrow will be better" and it does help ! Haha at least a little bit :o

:hug: :hug: :hug:

Hi Mari,

I read that section of the article, but I don't really follow how the ear stuff relates to mania and depression. My confusion is based on the fact that I don't see any clean lateralization in regard to the mood symptoms of mania and depression respectively.

Eg: In mania, thinking can become significantly tangential - quite unlinear (right-brain); in depression, rumination can occur - very linear thinking, and also quite active.
:confused:
In short, I am not convinced that BOTH sides of the brain aren't involved in terms of altered function.

What do you think? Do have a different view on this?

waves

Sounds like a fairly sound strategy per behaviorist theory (Skinner), :D if you can be successful at it the first few times. What I might do is listen to the "chosen" music when already calm, in order to try to condition the desired response.

waves

music
 

Waves,

Well it only worked if I was strung out and wired in addition to being sleep deprived tired.

I usually listed to Melissa, Melissa Etheridge's debut album (1988).
The first couple of tracks were intense -- almost as intense and angry and powerful as my mood. I listened to one or two other albums that worked for volume and intensity but their lyrics were less helpful than hers were. ( . . .never once felt the need to consider the neighbors's ears.)

After a few tracks of hers, I would fall sleep. Often when a loud track followed a slow quiet track, I would be awakened and get up to turn the stereo off and go back to sleep.

Or if it is was really a bad day (and I was not sleepy) I would play the album again.

Etheridge -"Similar Features"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMAbqbjzADk

Melissa Etheridge - Bring Me Some Water
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIvXUNp8HtU

I did try drinking wine after work to calm myself but it did not help because I probably needed copious amounts and I did not want to join the ranks of people in my mother's family who have ruined the lives of their spouses and kids. Carbs (pasta) worked in those days.
I most likely needed better drugs. I did get a better job soon . .. . got fired or quit. . . depending on how I choose to tell the work story.
+++
I have not found music that works like that for me now.
Maybe I should spend some time looking. The Black Keys are not awful.

M

Waves,

I could believe that in some people one side of the brain can dominate enough that cold water (or hot water) could work and be worth a try.
I can barely do anything with my left hand -- even my driving and typing is right hand dominated. In speaking, I make gestures with right hand.
I notice other people can move back and forth between hands.
(Hubby is nearly ambidextrous due to having to switch fromm lefthandeness when he started school at 5 so he might be far out of range of the norm.)

We had a U.S. poster many years a go here who did this Australian cold water technique on his adolescent son when his son was emergency room level manic.

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/ar...nt-acute-mania

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/stee...tigrew_01.html


I might try to look further into this Thursday.

Mari

Ok, Im in a "sadness crisis" as we speak....

Im going to turn off the computer and try the cold water right now.... will report if it helped !!

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!! Dont want to do anything stupid and/or feel depressed today all day long !

Oh, Majo,

I hope that you feel better.

After the bath, try something else. Sometimes I need three or four thinks on my list to be o.k.

Mari

(((Hugs))) to you Majo. Hope you feel better soon.

waves

Argh... :(

I used cold water (couldnt take a bath) in my hands, neck and face.... it feels good haha, like brain stops yeah ! :)

I later stayed in bed just watching and listening my little table fountain and it helped a little bit too I think....

I went for more cold water.... It feels good when you are right there....

I then listened some music and cried a bit but thanks God it stopped....

And Im here.... a little bit nostalgic but dont precisely sad fortunately... may depression stay away !

You know what was the stimuli this time ? I prepared all the week a letter for a friend, I gave it to her and she was like: Ah ok. Im busy, bye. Cruel much !?

Argh. Sometimes I cant explain why I keep caring about people... bad people I mean.

sleep can help sometimes
 

I usu try to adopt your same philosophy and also sleep if possible. Frequently have success and relief from mania or depression. Especially the latter!

:)

Mayo

Personally I think your reaction was appropriate.

You had prepared the letter, And I think you expected more of a reply.

So you were sad, and upset when it didn't come. And didn't know how to
respond. Maybe the crying was what you needed.

Maybe the cold water was what you needed.

Its hard to say.

Keep working to solve what you need. And if nothing else
find one of us to talk too.

Its okay to be sad that she didn't respond better to it.

Donna:hug::grouphug:

Thank you Donna :hug:

You know how much you mean to me, and it feels very nice to ne loved by such an amazing person like you :hug:

I really need to learn to let go... More easily, more quickly....

I am going to be blunt
 

Wow, you put a lot of effort into that letter! It sounds to me like her response caused you to experience a deep rejection, and it kind of flipped a switch? Can I say that? I hope I am not offending you. :o I am being very blunt, I know... :o

You anticipated an emotional reaction commensurate with your effort. But even if you told her, "Here, I've been working on this for you all week," I kind of doubt she could imagine the amount of time, let alone the emotional intensity you invested in that letter.

I suspect that in her view, you were just handing her something to read, that could very well be read later. Since she was busy, she let you know that. Maybe what she was doing was urgent, or she did not want to lose her train of thought, or she wanted to offer you her full attention? She may indeed not have been too gentle in her response. This can happen when someone's mind is elsewhere, but certainly if she was abrupt, it would augment your feelings of rejection.

Sometimes people can be clueless about these things though, you know? Does that mean she is cruel? Or bad? Those are strong words! I am almost willing to bet that, when you were working on the letter for her, you must have had equally strong positive beliefs about her. More bluntness: this sounds like an idealization/devaluation cycle... black/white thinking. I realize I am speaking from very far away so maybe I don't know what the heck I am talking about.

Majo, you have highly sensitive reactions. This can be a gift but also a curse. One of the risks is that your thinking can get skewed, by a strong subjective experience.

One of the rules I have adopted for times of feeling too intensely - whether I feel great or horrible - is to suspend judgement. The "judgement" part means I don't get to ascribe badness or goodness to a person or situation - I am allowed to experience my own feelings. The "suspend" part means this is only a temporary thing. Later, once I am in a more neutral place emotionally, I am allowed to sort through my feelings and decide what is me, what is outside of me, what is exaggerated and what is real. I don't always do this 100%, but even doing it somewhat has helped me.

I don't know if that could help you or not.

:hug::hug::hug: I am glad the water and the fountain sounds helped some. I love the sound of trickling water. I hope you can soothe yourself some more.

waves

Majo,

This is a thought of mine --- maybe not a good one . . ..

Maybe try not to get involved in the first place.
Take a break from people.
Look into things (collect data and experiment) about what you like and what works for you.
=====
Write letters to yourself.
If you want you can share the letters with us.

In these letters you can write about the things you have achieved (the small things and the big things.)

Mari

"Take a break from people."

That is precisly what Im gonna do.

And yes, clearly, I tend to idealize people...

Wont be back here at least in a long time.

Goodbye.