[Mari]

Originally Posted by Brokenfriend

I felt like where is everyone going? I felt left out,left behind,and broken hearted. This may have been to much info,but this has been my life. BF

Steve,

I hear you.

You are kind and thoughtful.
You have a good heart.

I stink in a major way with small talk. I want to talk about big stuff and ramble around OR be allowed to sit quietly.
My point is that you are not alone.

Mari

[Mari]

What I remember is different. I seem to remember they showed us a "harmless" snake that had all the same colors of a coral snake, but with a different ordering of the bands. My understanding was that the rhyme was to remind you which order you were looking at, and whether it was the lethal or the safe combination. I found multiple ways to apply it so that it worked either way, so it seemed ambiguous to me

My sis and my dad said that the rhyme we were taught in grade school was like this:
Red and yellow kills a fellow (often the "s" sound gets dropped out of some dialects)
Red and black o.k. Jack

Dad explained that the yellow bands are easy to see in nature. The Internet pictures do not do them justice.
Page 1 and 2 are of very different snakes:
http://www.nature.com/news/snakes-mi...dators-1.15397

Essentially, if the yellow touches red, it is the wrong kind of snake.
http://www.coastalplainsreptiles.com...e/CorlConf.htm

From that same page

The traffic signal's warning colors are red and yellow and are always together. So are they on the Coral Snake.

Well, that muddies everything. That would be too hard for me to remember


ETA one more link:
http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-the-Diff...-a-Coral-Snake

>> Coral snakes are kind of shy so people do not see many of them.
. .. easy to avoid them.

Mari

[Brokenfriend]

Thanks. I've learned something about snakes. Red touching yellow kills the fellow,and a red traffic light is close to the yellow. That's a good way to remember it.

Mimicry in nature is interesting. I collected butterflies when I was a kid. The famous Monarch butterfly is distasteful to birds,but a butterfly that looks very much like a Monarch that is called a Viceroy butterfly is tasteful to birds. So birds keep away from both of them. BF

[Brokenfriend]

Originally Posted by waves

Steve, you are a great guy, and you are interesting, without going about "being interesting" in any specific way. It's ok to be tense, and it's ok not to make conversation. A lot of times people make silly conversation just to fill silence anyway.... i.e. not much of an exchange there. Silence can be ok. Tenseness can be ok.


I felt that way a lot too.



Mari, I'm sorry if I overran your thread with unrelated concerns. I really wanted to respond to Steve's last post, but I will put a lid on it now. Thanks for letting us have this parenthesis.

waves

Thank you Waves. BF

[Brokenfriend]

Originally Posted by Mari

Steve,

I hear you.

You are kind and thoughtful.
You have a good heart.

I stink in a major way with small talk. I want to talk about big stuff and ramble around OR be allowed to sit quietly.
My point is that you are not alone.

Mari

Thank you Mari. BF

[waves]

Originally Posted by Mari

My sis and my dad said that the rhyme we were taught in grade school was like this:
Red and yellow kills a fellow (often the "s" sound gets dropped out of some dialects)
Red and black o.k. Jack

Makes sense.

And the 's' would have been dropped in the local dialect/speech. I sometimes "heard" it as the imperative, but that would be me. I'm pretty sure we said "snake's a jack", and again here, colloquially, "jack" meant "friend".

Page 1 and 2 are of very different snakes:
http://www.nature.com/news/snakes-mi...dators-1.15397

Essentially, if the yellow touches red, it is the wrong kind of snake.

These pix have the one I was shown. It is tthe Scarlet King Snake. And seeing it, I remember the problem I had. I mean, I understand what the interpretation is supposed to be, when I have the pictures of both snakes in front of me, to compare. But the rhyme I learned didn't help me remember that the distinction is in the touching of the yellow and red bands. Both snakes have "red and yellow" as well as "red and black", so if read just in terms of colors present, either snake would meet both criteria. Therein lay my issue with the rhyme. (Some rhyme examples in the links had the word "touch" in it -- more helpful.)

I can maybe remember better visually, that red and yellow together are "hot" or dangerous. Black "breaks" the danger.

Well, that muddies everything. That would be too hard for me to remember

Coral snakes are kind of shy so people do not see many of them.
. .. easy to avoid them.

Yeah... avoidance is the ticket.

But even if I saw a Scarlet King Snake, I wouldn't be inclined to go up to it and be like, "Hey, little Fella!" and tickle its chin, ya know?

waves

[Mari]

Huby often asks if it is safe to eat week old soup , beans, rice,.. . .

I tell him, NO.

He says, but what about this? And what about this?

I say, NO again. This is a constant conversation. Why not eat the soup within two days?

This time I had had enough.
I told him it was his decision but I would not sit with him in the ER waiting for the doctor to explain to him this:
Food can deteriorate as a result of two main factors:

1) growth of micro-organisms - usually from surface contaminations -- especially important in processed food

2) action of enzymes -- from within cells -- part of normal life process (responsible for respiration, for instance) . It is important to note that many plants -- fresh vegetalves and fruit are still alive even when raw, and meat from animals undergoes gradual chemical changes after slaughter.


He remains confused by #2 because there is no smell, no visible deterioration.
The bacteria release enzymes that are poisonous and that send people to the ER.


http://www.biotopics.co.uk/pot/foodsp.html

Also this: http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educat...lage/spg1.html

And this: http://busycooks.about.com/library/lessons/blrefrig.htm

M

---------
P.S.
He threw away the soup and found something else to eat.

[waves]

Hi, Mari,

That is frustrating.

There is a reason why perishables are called that... they perish/degrade to a point they are no longer food... they become compost. Compost is food for plants, perhaps, but not for humans. When your'e in the mood to be facetious, ask hubby if he is plant.

That said, I wouldn't try to feed week-old soup to a plant. It would go down the toilet.

I am going off to read your links now, becausee I am also "confused" by point 2. I'm not aware of any decomposition due to the food being itself "still alive". Maybe it's just semantics or the way that I interpreted it, but I'll go read the links.

waves

[Mari]

Originally Posted by waves

Hi, Mari,

That is frustrating.

There is a reason why perishables are called that... they perish/degrade to a point they are no longer food... they become compost. Compost is food for plants, perhaps, but not for humans. When your'e in the mood to be facetious, ask hubby if he is plant.

That said, I wouldn't try to feed week-old soup to a plant. It would go down the toilet.

I am going off to read your links now, becausee I am also "confused" by point

waves

Right they do not explain the enzyme thing very well but I spent a good amount of time looking and stopped there.
When foods breakdown (via normal bactria) the bacteria leave behind enzymes.

Hubby thinks as long as he "kills" the bacteria in the microwave, he is safe.
I tell him that the bacteria leave behind enzymes that are not "disappeared" by the microwave or any other cooking method.

I tell him something like "compost" also.
I tell him that the food has already started becoming dirt and needs to go back to the earth.

M

[waves]

Yeah, ok, I see that this quote --

Originally Posted by Mari

2) action of enzymes -- from within cells -- part of normal life process (responsible for respiration, for instance) . It is important to note that many plants -- fresh vegetalves and fruit are still alive even when raw, and meat from animals undergoes gradual chemical changes after slaughter.

-- comes from this link:

http://www.biotopics.co.uk/pot/foodsp.html

I'd believe the guy if he gave even a passing example, but he doesn't, and I don't. He mostly talks about microorganisms. The fact that an enzyme is intact after a vegetable has been cut or an egg has been refrigerated does not imply that vegetable or egg is alive. I am thinking about stuff that goes in the fridge, here. All our tuber vegetables are indeed alive... but in the context of hubby and his fridge/leftovers thing.... yer celery will not sprout roots. Hmm. Carrots! Exception. Ok.

But even the celery will absorb water... It's leaves will even perk up if you put it in water. Capillary attraction, that's all. Perhaps he means that certain cells are still alive? True, but I guess I don't see a lot of relevance and he hasn't really shown the relevance, imho.

He remains confused by #2 because there is no smell, no visible deterioration.

Ok well, even if we just consider point 1, there are demonstrable examples of non-smelly, non-visibly tainted food which has undergone toxic deterioration. Eg botulinum toxin: this can develop in chopped garlic -- unsafe after 2-3 days, it has 5 days if placed under oil, but no more.

The bacteria release enzymes that are poisonous and that send people to the ER.

Not necessarily enzymes but say chemicals/toxins and you can't go wrong. Here again, more examples available of this under point 1.

In the interest of generral persuasion of hubby, I might abandon the point 2 stronghold and put all your eggs in the point 1 basket. It's a very big basket and pretty much covers your "leftover food" cases and most prepared foods like cheese and milk.

(I haven't read the other llinks yet... don't know if thosee will enlighten me more.)

waves