[Mari]

Huby often asks if it is safe to eat week old soup , beans, rice,.. . .

I tell him, NO.

He says, but what about this? And what about this?

I say, NO again. This is a constant conversation. Why not eat the soup within two days?

This time I had had enough.
I told him it was his decision but I would not sit with him in the ER waiting for the doctor to explain to him this:
Food can deteriorate as a result of two main factors:

1) growth of micro-organisms - usually from surface contaminations -- especially important in processed food

2) action of enzymes -- from within cells -- part of normal life process (responsible for respiration, for instance) . It is important to note that many plants -- fresh vegetalves and fruit are still alive even when raw, and meat from animals undergoes gradual chemical changes after slaughter.


He remains confused by #2 because there is no smell, no visible deterioration.
The bacteria release enzymes that are poisonous and that send people to the ER.


http://www.biotopics.co.uk/pot/foodsp.html

Also this: http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educat...lage/spg1.html

And this: http://busycooks.about.com/library/lessons/blrefrig.htm

M

---------
P.S.
He threw away the soup and found something else to eat.

[waves]

Hi, Mari,

That is frustrating.

There is a reason why perishables are called that... they perish/degrade to a point they are no longer food... they become compost. Compost is food for plants, perhaps, but not for humans. When your'e in the mood to be facetious, ask hubby if he is plant.

That said, I wouldn't try to feed week-old soup to a plant. It would go down the toilet.

I am going off to read your links now, becausee I am also "confused" by point 2. I'm not aware of any decomposition due to the food being itself "still alive". Maybe it's just semantics or the way that I interpreted it, but I'll go read the links.

waves

[Mari]

Originally Posted by waves

Hi, Mari,

That is frustrating.

There is a reason why perishables are called that... they perish/degrade to a point they are no longer food... they become compost. Compost is food for plants, perhaps, but not for humans. When your'e in the mood to be facetious, ask hubby if he is plant.

That said, I wouldn't try to feed week-old soup to a plant. It would go down the toilet.

I am going off to read your links now, becausee I am also "confused" by point

waves

Right they do not explain the enzyme thing very well but I spent a good amount of time looking and stopped there.
When foods breakdown (via normal bactria) the bacteria leave behind enzymes.

Hubby thinks as long as he "kills" the bacteria in the microwave, he is safe.
I tell him that the bacteria leave behind enzymes that are not "disappeared" by the microwave or any other cooking method.

I tell him something like "compost" also.
I tell him that the food has already started becoming dirt and needs to go back to the earth.

M

[waves]

Originally Posted by Mari

Right they do not explain the enzyme thing very well but I spent a good amount of time looking and stopped there.
When foods breakdown (via normal bactria) the bacteria leave behind enzymes.

We cross posted, and yes... that's my problem with his point 2.

Hubby thinks as long as he "kills" the bacteria in the microwave, he is safe.
I tell him that the bacteria leave behind enzymes that are not "disappeared" by the microwave or any other cooking method.

He can sterilize the food but would have to bring to a boil in a pan and heat for 15-20 mins. If what is being reheated is not liquid, it should be immersed in liquid (often not ideal -- meat will become really tough).

I would not attempt to sterilize that way in a microwave. The problem (and he will know this) is that the distribution of water is uneven, hence the heating is uneven. Reheating in the microwave for the amount of time required for certain sterilizatioon of all parts of the food will render other parts of the food inedible (gummy, dehydrated, even charred... etc).

I tell him something like "compost" also.
I tell him that the food has already started becoming dirt and needs to go back to the earth.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by waves;1078256
I would not attempt to sterilize that way in a microwave. The problem (and he will know this) is that the distribution of water is uneven, hence the heating is uneven.
[IMG

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/images/styles/desert_sand/icons/icon14.gif[/IMG]

He goes by his version of the 80% rule which in his actions is closer to a 40% rule.

Mari

[waves]

Yeah, ok, I see that this quote --

Originally Posted by Mari

2) action of enzymes -- from within cells -- part of normal life process (responsible for respiration, for instance) . It is important to note that many plants -- fresh vegetalves and fruit are still alive even when raw, and meat from animals undergoes gradual chemical changes after slaughter.

-- comes from this link:

http://www.biotopics.co.uk/pot/foodsp.html

I'd believe the guy if he gave even a passing example, but he doesn't, and I don't. He mostly talks about microorganisms. The fact that an enzyme is intact after a vegetable has been cut or an egg has been refrigerated does not imply that vegetable or egg is alive. I am thinking about stuff that goes in the fridge, here. All our tuber vegetables are indeed alive... but in the context of hubby and his fridge/leftovers thing.... yer celery will not sprout roots. Hmm. Carrots! Exception. Ok.

But even the celery will absorb water... It's leaves will even perk up if you put it in water. Capillary attraction, that's all. Perhaps he means that certain cells are still alive? True, but I guess I don't see a lot of relevance and he hasn't really shown the relevance, imho.

He remains confused by #2 because there is no smell, no visible deterioration.

Ok well, even if we just consider point 1, there are demonstrable examples of non-smelly, non-visibly tainted food which has undergone toxic deterioration. Eg botulinum toxin: this can develop in chopped garlic -- unsafe after 2-3 days, it has 5 days if placed under oil, but no more.

The bacteria release enzymes that are poisonous and that send people to the ER.

Not necessarily enzymes but say chemicals/toxins and you can't go wrong. Here again, more examples available of this under point 1.

In the interest of generral persuasion of hubby, I might abandon the point 2 stronghold and put all your eggs in the point 1 basket. It's a very big basket and pretty much covers your "leftover food" cases and most prepared foods like cheese and milk.

(I haven't read the other llinks yet... don't know if thosee will enlighten me more.)

waves

[Mari]

The other links will not enlighten you more.
They are saying the same thing.
I gave up for tonight.

I also am not going to point things out to hubby -- like the importance of only buying what he will eat soon or put almost immediately in the freeze.
The next time he hands me cherries turned to mush/ 6 day old chicken/ and so on, I will tell him to make his own decision.

His beloved grandfather taught him the importance of not wasting food.
But his grandfather was talking about something entirely different -- nothing about 'saving' soup front the Chinese take out place.

Mari

[Brokenfriend]

We three all posted within the same several minutes. BF

[Brokenfriend]

Originally Posted by Mari

Huby often asks if it is safe to eat week old soup , beans, rice,.. . .

I tell him, NO.

He says, but what about this? And what about this?

I say, NO again. This is a constant conversation. Why not eat the soup within two days?

This time I had had enough.
I told him it was his decision but I would not sit with him in the ER waiting for the doctor to explain to him this:
Food can deteriorate as a result of two main factors:

1) growth of micro-organisms - usually from surface contaminations -- especially important in processed food

2) action of enzymes -- from within cells -- part of normal life process (responsible for respiration, for instance) . It is important to note that many plants -- fresh vegetalves and fruit are still alive even when raw, and meat from animals undergoes gradual chemical changes after slaughter.


He remains confused by #2 because there is no smell, no visible deterioration.
The bacteria release enzymes that are poisonous and that send people to the ER.


http://www.biotopics.co.uk/pot/foodsp.html

Also this: http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educat...lage/spg1.html

And this: http://busycooks.about.com/library/lessons/blrefrig.htm

M

---------
P.S.
He threw away the soup and found something else to eat.

Mari He may need to see it for himself. I've had several microscopes that show single cell life forms in creek,and lake water. I use to be amazed with the older microscopes.

Do they have a microscope at work that you can borrow. If he sees the germ world for himself,he may be frightened to eat anything till it's been cooked for hours.lol BF

[Mari]

Originally Posted by Brokenfriend

Mari He may need to see it for himself. I've had several microscopes that show single cell life forms in creek,and lake water. I use to be amazed with the older microscopes.

Do they have a microscope at work that you can borrow. If he sees the germ world himself,he may be frightened to eat anything till it's been cooked for hours.lol BF

I am almost certain I read that the bacteria create byproducts that essentially are poisonous to people.

M