Mari, i live in the suburbs but work would pretty much have to be in the city, and the buses to the city from here in rush hour are crowded, and the subway is like sardines.

I hate it. I hate having people sitting next to me that have physical contact with me just by the proximity of the seats. I have NEVER got used to it. I can "handle" it but when i am in a down phase, or worse, and anxious phase, or double worse, an anxious depression, FORGET IT. ain't get me on no bus. when i go to therapy is about it, and that's usually during "off times" and i avoid as much crowding as possible by leaving too early. i am also prone to self medicate under those conditions (drink) whether or not i have taken lorazepam!

I did not grow up this way. I did not take public transport for the first 16 years of my adult/working life in the US where i lived in a spacious layout of towns in central Florida. Even just moving to California was traumatic at first because it was so much more crowded (bay area) - traffic and people (stores). But heck, Albertsons was a walk away and 24/7 and very often i'd shop when the store was empty. i'd go to work late when the highway was empty and i could use the carpool lane as well as the other three. i'd get in trouble for it too (being late). I would shop night hours in FL too often, always been a night owl, never minded driving at night... would drive 30 minutes to the 24/7 walmart in Orlando area lol at 2 or 3 in the morning.

However the people-around-me issues got worse when i got here. There was no escape. It is everywhere. It is on the sidewalk.

Yes, very much so. Speaking distance for me with a coworker is comfortable at say 1 foot MAX. More for strangers, less only for someone with whom i'm intimate. here my first shock was it's like 6 inches with coworkers. and people talk louder. i step out of range. they step back in... besides that, in crowded places, the space does not allow for the "luxury" of personal space... and people often ignore it on the street. I've frequently walked on a NON crowded sidewalk, had someone brush my arm as they passed in the other direction... eg. two women chatting. some move if there is moving space, but many don't bother. it doesn't seem to bother them. so i zigzag. thank goodness there is no such thing as "reckless walking" - i used to be a zigzag driver (you'd hate to be on the road with me no doubt). For some reason, when i'm inside a car, i feel protected by this "exoskeleton and while traffic is stressful due to the level of attention needed, i can engage it and not be so bothered by it... not nearly as much as "people contact." is that weird or what?

Tritone we have totally hijacked this thread by now on sociological issues... These topics are interesting too tho... especially to those of us with any degree of social anxiety.

Back to personal space. This is different in every culture. there is something known as "the ambassador's dance" because in international meetings such movements as i described with coworkers, of drawing closer and further apart are typical, when a person of a culture that keeps a high personal space comes into contact with someone keeping a low personal space... one moves closer to be at the "right" distance... the other moves away to be... at the "right" distance. LOL.

Civilization. Maya.

Yup. even just to interview. and the commute time spent in those conditions... invariably at times which are crowded.

~ waves ~ from an unfortunately too remote distance

Hi Waves,

No - I totally got that you weren't trying to make any comparisons. You were very clear. I made the comparison as I've been in what I think is the same place you describe of speaking out as well as sitting and stewing... I was being repetitive I guess and just setting this latest thing apart from my other daily peeves... It seemed significant to make that distinction. I can also see how someone else might read this and think that I am the one being "self-righteous" - but it didn't feel that way to me.

It was very reflex-like And this is interesting because it seems everything I do these days, from getting up to taking my meds to going to work is so calculated and planned. There isn't much "mystery" left in life for me these days. So when I surprise myself and do something unplanned, spontaneous and like a reflex it gives me something to chew on and wonder about. I didn't say impulsive. Maybe it was impulsive. But what I think is reflex. Like breathing. Reflex vs Impulse. Is there such a thing? Maybe I'm splitting hairs now.

Nah, don't worry about hijacking the post. That's what it is here for. Please... breath some life into it!

Urban living... Can you say love hate relationship? I feel lost outside the city. As much as I love the fresh air and space and quiet... I'm just lost. There is no diversity. I feel even less of a chance of talking to someone who'll understand me than I do now. I've said it before, the diversity is the thing I love. I don't feel so weird. Outside the city people tend to be, at least superficially, much less diverse. They are much less exposed to things. My theory (please don't take this as a slight or insult) is that perhaps in the city people are a little closer to reality. At least it is very hard to live in the city and cloak yourself if a particular belief system or point of view and exclude all others.

Perhaps I could say this - I think for me it is going to be one of two extremes:

1 - live in the city with it's ups and downs

2 - live somewhere that is so remote i can be completely free and only deal with who I want to deal with when I want to deal with them.