Hello, Bryanna, I browsed this entire thread, and I am so thankful that you graciously provide such pertinent information. I am a 26yo college student and have no dental insurance. I have a dental discount plan, and that's it. I went for my 6mos cleaning and checkup in late August and discovered a bunch of issues and began a treatment plan.

I have always had trouble with my teeth because I am a grinder/clencher. I have been so my whole life, but only recently got a mouth guard in 2012. It has helped immensely since then, but a lot of damage had already been sustained. I have 3 RC'd teeth in my mouth currently and 2 or 3 silver fillings from when I was a kid. I wish I'd seen your info before I'd gotten my most recent RC on tooth 7 (which was about 3.5 weeks ago). The tooth had no bulging infection visible on the x-ray, but a very small filling I didn't need had been placed right on top of the nerve (I got this done abroad, and the dentist thought he was "helping" me by filling in a small area of staining in my tooth without permission. The tooth had no decay. It had given me no issues for a year or so after, so I thought all was well). It became extremely painful (though not while chewing) to the point that it hurt to place my mouthguard on, yet at the same time, the pressure from me clenching while asleep produced throbbing pain when I awoke. So, I had it RC'd and all pain/sensitivity is gone. I never received any antibiotics or oral pain meds before or after the procedure. I actually did inquire about a dental implant but the dentist said, you're far too young to need something like that etc...

I was also told around the same time (and saw the x-rays for myself) that my RC'd tooth from 2009 was re-infected (I believe tooth 31 or 30). It had a very tiny area of darkness near the tip of the root filling. I was also told (and again shown) that this happened because the Endo who filled it, didn't fill the entire canal like he should have. And indeed, when you see the x-rays, the left side of the tooth is not as... "filled" as the right side. They told me it would be easy to "save" my tooth with another RC because the infection wasn't widespread (I lol at that after reading what you've written in this thread).

Well, I wasn't sure what to do, and was told I had time to wait since the infection wasn't "bad." In fact, up until this very night, the tooth had been asymptomatic. Tonight, after pressure on the tooth from lack of a mouthguard (have to get another one made due to the recent RC), I assume, I woke up with it throbbing to the touch. I began researching re-infected RC'd teeth and happened across this thread.

I definitely don't want to get another root canal. I am thinking that because the infected area is so small, I probably would be able to get an implant without needing a bone graft. I am a generally healthy person who has a lot of subsequent dental problems from clenching and grinding. However, your post concerned me in regards to implants because it seems they have a very high risk of failing when replacing a root canal? I am absolutely AGAINST any type of denture/partial denture/or bridge. I want something that will stay in my mouth forever. I'm too young to worry about removing dentures and all that.

Funny, while researching, I also came across a Yahoo Answers thread: Should I get an implant after a failed root canal? (I can't post the link because I'm new); And it just makes me wonder why some dentist are intent on RC's. The first DDS that responded to the young woman didn't have anything to gain financially and yet still told her to try and save the tooth as a first line of treatment... WHY don't all dentists know what you know Bryanna??

I am so afraid & frustrated. I figure I can take out some sort of care loan to pay for all this, so I'm not as concerned about the money. I just want a healthy mouth, and I feel screwed with both options. I just want to burst into tears thinking about it

Hi Pallas,

First let me clarify that ALL dentists do know what I know about root canaled teeth. Conventional minded dentists rarely if ever offer their patients the information that I do. Why?.... 1) root canal therapy is very profitable 2) it takes time to educate a patient about the risks associated with root canals 3) to say that the procedure is flawed could create a huge stir as dentists have been selling this procedure for many years without offering any information about them. So if you go on any blog online that has conventional minded dentists who are offering information.... most likely all of them will suggest root canal therapy.

FYI.... The tooth that was root canaled in 2009.... has been unhealthy since the rc was performed if not sooner than that depending on what was wrong to begin with. It is not a question of the canals being partially filled or the procedure being done wrong.... it is the simple fact that a tooth can never be sterilized and made well again because the tiny canals called dentin tubules cannot be cleaned out. Along with that fact the blood vessel supplying the tooth with nutrition and vitality gets permanently cut off during a root canal procedure. Many other negative issues follow eventually rendering the tooth very unwell.

Regarding the placement of a bone graft after an extraction... this should only be done when the bone is believed to be healthy and when the surgeon feels that the site would be compromised if the graft were not done. The graft is meant to encourage the growth of new bone which can be beneficial when the time comes to actually place the implant.

Regarding the placement of an implant in the bone where there had been a root canaled tooth..... The reason it is risky is because the bacteria from the tooth proliferates into the jaw bone. There is no guarantee that the bone will ever be completely healthy again once the tooth is removed. The one thing to take in to consideration is that the longer the rc tooth is present, the more diseased the bone becomes. Everyone has an individual healing response which mostly depends on the health of their immune system.

Generally it is not ideal to extract an rc tooth and place the implant immediately. It is often better to extract the rc tooth and monitor the healing of the bone for 3-6 months before placing the implant.

I caution you about purchasing a dental plan on your own. If you buy something inexpensive and have to see a participating dentist.... the dentistry will not not be very good. These plans offer very low benefits.... so the dental work will reflect that. If you purchase a plan with decent coverage and the freedom to see the dentist of your choice then the premium for these plans will be fairly high. So you really have to weigh the pros and cons as the insurance may be too costly for the benefits you will get out of it.

I know this a bit scary but educate yourself as much as you can about root canaled teeth so that you can make decisions that are truly in your best interest. Sites like Dr Mercola and Dr George Meinig .... are two places that give the most factual information.

Please keep us posted on everything....
Bryanna

Hi Bryanna, wondering if you can give me some advice. I stumbled on this thread and have learned so much already.

Not sure how to proceed buy here goes. I have about 5-6 RCs (worked for coca cola, lived abroad and didn't have insurance, didn't have insurance as a college student etc). Over the last few weeks I have noticed increased puffiness and tenderness in the gum around tooth #4. Then the tooth became wobbly and therefore I could chew on that side anymore. Everything came to a head this past weekend when it got painful and I had to pop ibuprofin to make it though the day and during sleep.

I made an appt to see the dentist who took an xray and confirmed that there was an infection with the root canal. He wasn't sure if the root was broken (not sure if thats the right term) but also noted that the root was on the short side compared to #3 and #5. The records also showed that this tooth was RC'd in 2002 and had to be retreated with a new RC in 2007...so not a good track record.

The dentist said my options are as follows, extract the tooth and leave a space, get an implant, get a bridge, or try to get a third RC done on the same tooth. His concern with the bridge is that the two teeth on both sides have had RCs and may not provide the best anchor support because of this. An implant looks quite involved and scary and would run about $5k, my insurance (for a top 5 US bank I might add maxes out at $1k per year . I have seen mentioned a nesbit and partial denture, do you see any issues with these two options? If they suggest extracting on Wednesday would the endodontist be more proficient/qualified to do it that the general dentist practitioner? Do you have any other suggestions or questions I should ask when I see the endodontist on Wednesday? My insurance is already maxed out due to my most recent RC on another tooth and a crown so everything is out of pocket until Jan 1...so an oral surgeon may not be affordable.

My gums are bulging and sore and tender on both sides and the entire area throbs...so I'm taking Hydrocodone Acetaminophen for the pain killer and Penicillin/Potassium for the antibiotic.

Thanks so much for reading all of this and I appreciate any advice or suggestions you have to offer.

Anyone? Must be TG time huh?

Hi Patton,

SO sorry for the delay in my reply. Holidays and an unexpected family situation had my attention.

By now you have seen the dentist?

I am going to be very blunt with you....not to scare you or alarm you.... just truthful..... ok.

All root canaled teeth are unhealthy due to the fact that they no longer receive any nutrition as the blood vessel has been cut off to each of these teeth. They are also harboring necrotic nerve tissue inside the tiny canals of which there are thousands of them. So eventually the bacteria builds up and signs of the infection become obvious. Irrelevant of how many times a tooth is root canaled, the bacterial problem remains the same, if not worse from the additional inflammation caused by the procedure itself. One of those signs is fore shortening of the root of the tooth. As you described in your post. It is literally a deterioration of the tooth, the ligament and the surrounding bone.

Regarding the placement of a bridge.....
Due to the progression of bacteria and infection it is never wise to use root canaled teeth as anchor teeth for any size bridge. It is inevitable that the bridge will fail resulting in severe bone loss due to the chronic infection from the rc teeth along with the bone loss from the removal of the teeth being replaced.

Regarding the placement of dental implants either next to root canaled teeth and/or replacing root canaled teeth....
Again due to the progression of bacteria from the rc teeth and the deterioration of the bone that results from that bacteria it is always risky to place implants in these areas. The risk of bone infection and failure of the implants is quite high.

The only options left to replace root canaled teeth, which may be the healthiest choice, would be a bridge if indicated or a removable partial denture. A Nesbit appliance is a small removable appliance that holds one or two teeth in a row. It requires healthy anchor teeth on both sides of the space to hold it in place. These appliances are not meant to be worn for chewing purposes as they can be easily dislodged and choked on or swallowed. They are used to fill the gaps where the teeth are missing for the purpose of preventing the adjacent teeth from moving and for esthetic purposes.

You should also know that in many cases, it takes months or years for obvious symptoms to develop. This does not mean the infection is new, it means the area is overwhelmed with bacteria. So it is not something to put off with antibiotics or pain killers. Many dentists often prescribe both longer than they should.... just offering some FYI here.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news...... but you have the right to be properly informed so you can make the best decision for yourself.

Keep us posted....
Bryanna

I just got a root canal this week after doing months of research about them and the alternatives. What I found was that the only alternative is extraction or leaving in the decayed tooth. I got four opinions from different dental offices and they all suggested the RC. Only one thought a pulp cap could be an option - until I told here what had happened with that tooth. Anyway, I was aware that many people believed RCs were bad, but I could not find any clinical studies to back up the claims, though there was plenty of anecdotal stuff. It's hard to discern what is trustworthy on the internet, though. So, I decided to go with the RC.

The RC took place five days ago, and I've already experienced many side effects I believe are related to the RC, including severe fatigue, rapid heart beat, and dofficulty concentrating. I'm already to the point where I'm ready to have the tooth pulled. I just don't want to end up with something worse, and I want to see if these symptoms get better.

Has anyone else experienced similar symptoms after a RC? Also, anyone had an RC removed and if so, how did you end up filling the whole? How long was recovery after extraction? I'm leaning toward a partial denture to fill the gap. What are the possible complications with extraction?

I know that's a lot of questions, but thanks for taking the time to read and respond!

Hi Chelle1,

There has never been any dispute amongst the dental profession, conventional or alternative, regarding the systemic connection between the mouth and the body. It does not take a scientist to confirm that the body and all of it's parts are intricately connected. One only needs to know the basics of anatomy to understand that a chronic infection filtering through the bloodstream carries a systemic risk irrelevant of where the origin of that infection may be.

Dating back to the early 1900's there have been various studies done to research the systemic connection between root canaled/infected teeth and the rest of the body. Dr. Weston Price performed and publicized his research in the 1920's but because his findings were so conclusive regarding the correlation, they were smothered/hidden/denied by his peers and various dental societies out of fear that the information would cause a huge public commotion and a great loss of income amongst the dental profession. In many respects, this still holds true this very day. Especially since there are no viable dental options available to "cure" an infected tooth.

Many of the studies that follow Price's are still being written in dental jargon which is difficult for the lay person to comprehend. Many dentists are still most comfortable being in denial or cover up/misconstrue the facts to avoid losing income or being ostracized by their peers. So the consumer has no choice but to seek the information from reputable sources (dental, medical or other) that have a long track record of providing uninhibited, factual, honest, and often unpopular data to the public because we do not concern ourselves with peer pressure or popularity.

The studies are usually done in great length and as I said, in dental jargon. But here are some excerpts from a few of them that been done by various professionals and published <for the dental profession> in the Endodontic journals....

***Human endodontic and periodontal infections are associated with complex microfloras. These infections are predominantly anaerobic. The anatomic closeness of this microflora to the bloodstream can facilitate bacteremia and systemic spread of bacterial by-products and immunocomplexes.

Debelian GJ, Olsen I, Tronstad L. Systemic diseases caused by oral microorganisms. Endod Dent Traumatol. 1994 Apr;10(2):57-65

***This study characterizes oral microorganisms believed to have spread from the root canal into the blood stream during and after endodontic therapy of teeth with asymptomatic apical periodontitis. Biochemical tests and antibiograms revealed that isolates from the root canal and the blood had identical profiles within the patients, strongly suggesting that the microorganisms isolated from the blood had the root canal as their source.

Debelian GJ, Olsen I, Tronstad L. Bacteremia in conjunction with endodontic therapy. Endod Dent Traumatol 1995;11(3):142-149

***This study of fifty infected teeth treated with root canal therapy showed that a high percentage of asymptomatic root filled teeth still still showed evidence of bacterial contamination after root canal therapy.

Taniguchi N, Fujisawa M, Shinohara K, Uetani T, Tadano H, Horiguchi H, Sekine I. Research on aseptic condition of root canals after endodontic treatment. Gifu Shika Gakkai Zasshi 1989 Dec;16(2):561-565.

***The microflora of deep layers of infected root dentine is somewhat similar to that of deep layers of carious coronal dentine. These findings suggest that of deep layers of endodontic dentinal lesions of human root canals is anaerobic and favours the growth of anaerobes.

Ando N, Hoshino E. Predominant obligate anaerobes invading the deep layers of root canal dentin. Int Endod J 1990 Jan;23(1):20-27

***The persistent presence of bacteria in the root canal system often leads to failure of treatment. The results of this study showed that S. Sanguis can penetrate deep inside the tubules ( 792 microns ).

Perez F, Calas P, de Faiguerolles A, Maurette A. Migration of a streptococcus sanguis strain through the root dentinal tubules. J Endo 1993 Jun;19(6):297-301

I hope this enlightens you to the fact that there are clinical studies confirming the correlation between rc teeth/infected teeth and the body and that some of the anecdotal stuff you are reading online is probably more valid than the information your dentist is offering you.

Bryanna

Best explanation yet. Thank you. Have a very good New Year. ginnie

While it may be true that dentist don't dispute the systemic connection between the mouth and the body, my experience has been that not all dentists have the same understanding of what those connections are. Some take the meridian tooth chart seriously, others can't seem to make a practical connection between a person's overall health and recently performed dental procedures. I understand that my dentist doesn't know my medical history, but to rule out the possibility that my adverse symptoms could be related to the dental procedure that I just had that morning, when the symptoms weren't present before the procedure, tells me that a connection is not even being considered.

Thanks for posting the studies. I do plan to read some (if not all) of them. I've looked up one so far, and have found it in both the NIH and Wiley online databases.

As for reading peoples stories, I don't doubt their experiences - like I shared my own - I believed that they truly did experience what they said. But, as someone who was trying to decide on the best option, I did not find any clinical studies, just people saying what a study said (not linking to the actual study), which isn't very helpful, when the professionals claim to have never seen any studies that indicate root canals cause health problems.

Does it matter whether or not a nerve was infected before the root canal procedure was performed, in terms of outcomes? If the nerve was not infected, would it still be likely for the oxygen-resistant bacteria to build up in the tooth?

Thanks!