socasusie,

From reading your last post I imagine you can understand why I am taking so long to get back to you & Bryanna. I don't know if it is the Fibro or years of many large amalgam (mercury) fillings but I struggle with confusion, memory, brain fog (I call it "no body's home" syndrome)! I have to read & re-read everything to have it sink in. Used to be sharp as a tack! Oh well.

I feel for your condition. I have only 2 longtime friends & they both have SLE & Rheumatoid arthritis. I know the struggles you go through. So far I have no auto-immune issues. I don't mind living alone, but my only child, his wife & 5 grandchildren live in Florida. There are times when we all need help. It's quite hard to come by sometimes.

What an awful experience you had with you Mom, sister, & your following health problems! I totally know what you mean "you thought you would break". I have finally learned not to let myself EVER even entertain that thought.

I do have an advantage plan but no dental rider.

Thanks for the reminder that I will get through this. When times get really bad I just say to myself "this too shall pass" & the truth is- it does.

Bryanna,

Sorry took so long, as I mentioned to socasusie, problems with brain fog.

Again, I am so grateful for your help. Guess I'll give you a hopefully brief picture of my dental life.

To start with I'm 64 years old. I have Fibromyalgia, I'm managing it pretty well, but fatigue & cognitive abilities=brain frequently just quits on me, are my biggest challenges. (Not as much pain as most). General health is really quite good. I just feel like crap! I still have a good zest for life but do find it a challenge at times keeping a positive attitude.


Here is my dental history:
Many amalgams starting in childhood, most of them are quite large now after repeated re-doing of them. Several were replaced with composite but I feel the damage had already been done.
First root canal at age 20.
Received about 4 more in the next 35? years.
Starting about 12 years ago whenever a tooth needed re-filled I made the dentist use composite to rid myself of the mercury. That's when my search for a dentist trained in amalgam removal started. That, I feel (4 dentists later) has been a waste of time. I don't see were they did anything different.
Only 1 wisdom tooth ever came in=upper right.
9 months ago had#2 extracted. (upper right molar) It had cracked too deeply to be saved. I do have the wisdom tooth on the other side of it but was told there is not enough bone for an implant. I wouldn't want one now anyway after what I've learned from this group. (Can't afford it either).
8 months ago I lost #15, it was cracked plus very suddenly started to taste pretty bad when I put chewing pressure on it. Gum also bled with flossing. All of the symptoms came on quickly. I have always taken care of things asap, so was surprised to lose these 2 teeth! Was told "no implant" for this one because the roots of bordering teeth are tipping in towards the extraction site.
He did an inlay/onlay on #'s 12 & 14 with no r/c. This was a hard to find Dentist supposedly trained in proper removal of amalgams. He didn't believe in root canals. Both of these onlays felt like foreign objects, very uncomfortable & not shaped properly to meet bottom teeth. The only teeth that met on that side were #13 upper & #29 lower. The upper is a previously r/c & crown. He drilled on that one to adjust the bite. I had originally went in for that one telling him something was wrong, it felt like it came loose then seemed to re-seat itself. Was told it was tight, he would not pull a good crown off. A month later the tooth started being sensitive to biting pressure. He still says it's ok. I changed dentists.
New dentist says tooth is ok. I am burning out at this point so decided to stay with him "He was recommended by acquaintances". I told him I did not want to lose any more teeth & discussed dentures as an option. Was strongly discouraged of dentures. He recommended doing a r/c on 5 upper teeth with crowns & 3 other teeth with crowns only. $10400, but I later found he was a member of a dental plan which I purchased for $110 a year. This took the price down to $8000.
After MUCH soul searching about this, we started all this recommended work 8 days ago. Then I found you folks & announced that 48 hours later #10 was infected. Was put on Penicillin. At this point I don't thing the pain I felt was maybe normal for a r/c. It only hurts when I tap on it pushing upwards. It's a bit less sensitive now. So that's the story! By the way, isn't it ironic that I have complained of discomfort in #13 for 9 months now with neither dentist hearing me?
I have read many of the posts here & now believe that the tooth is infected & in the process of dying. Also, the 2 inlay/onlay teeth (12 &14) are pressure sensitive now. They both prior to inlay/onlay had fairly large fillings.

I have refrained from asking you ton's of questions & instead decided to read several of the posts for info. Got most questions answered that way. I'm curious to get you input and advice on what I think I have decided to do: Oh I just remembered something==After the 2 extractions I developed a very strange condition in my mouth! The best I have been able to figure out is I have what is called Myo-facia contracture. Don't know if I have that term right or not. It's much better now, but for maybe 4 or 5 months it felt like the muscle or tissue around my teeth, gums & tongue was extremely tight. This was painful & was accompanied with a burning mouth symptom that forced me to use ambusol for relief. Everything looked fine in my mouth. After 4 to 5 months of this tightness it seemed as if some of my teeth were a bit loose. Most all of the back ones were sensitive to chew with. It was a bad time. I still have some of this going on but is much better. Top this off with moderate clenching. My poor teeth!!

I have pretty much decided to have all top teeth extracted & get a full denture. I feel I need to get right on this, but am occasionally overwhelmed & can't think straight about it. I have questions to ask about this process but have exhausted my brain energy for now. I'm very interested to hear what you have to say & any advice you may have.

Thanks in advance, Sally

Hi again,

I read over my last message & decided I should clarify 2 things.

I seemed to have gotten tongue tied when talking about the infection & pain I felt from my recent root canal on #10. Was trying to say that I don't think the pain I felt & was prescribed Penicillin for was from infection. I think it maybe was & still is a normal pain felt from the r/c procedure. It doesn't ache, it only hurts when it is tapped in an upwards fashion. I just got scared when I noticed that it hurt & didn't explain it properly to the dentist or to you folks. My apologies. Of course from reading and talking here I now know that it is indeed infected.

The other thing is=All of that $8000 worth of work is all on the upper teeth. The dentist doesn't seem to be concerned with the bottom teeth. Strange, because there are 4 large amalgams & 2 small ones. 2 of the large ones are also sensitive. I think I have too many bad ones to try to deal with, so dentures is probably my best bet. Any and all opinions on this decision are very welcome. I need all the help I can get.

Ok, call your MA carrier and ask for info about a dental rider. See what it covers. I worked in insurance with MA products for 5 years. It used to be you can add it at anytime, and drop it anytime. That meant you could add it for a few months and then drop it once you got your work done....

Lol, I am the same way when I'm tired. Darn brain fog!!

Don't stress about processing it. Dental work is the worst!

[QUOTE=socasusie;1002349]Ok, call your MA carrier and ask for info about a dental rider. See what it covers. I worked in insurance with MA products for 5 years. It used to be you can add it at anytime, and drop it anytime. That meant you could add it for a few months and then drop it once you got your work done....

Lol, I am the same way when I'm tired. Darn brain fog!!

Don't stress about processing it. Dental work is the worst![/QUOTEs

socasusie,

Well, I called my Insurance & they have no rider, but referred me to the independent dental ins. co. United Concordia, I had checked them out in the past & am pretty sure there would be a waiting period before I could use it. I think maybe it was 6 months? All I know is I rejected it for some reason. I guess I should call again to make sure how long the waiting period is. Maybe by the time I fool around deciding where to get dentures made & get all necessary preliminary work done the policy would be in force.

Time to take of some normal daily living stuff.

Sally

Bryanna, socasusie, (or anyone else who might know) I'm hoping you have time to answer a question for me. I just noticed a small lump at the tip of my new root canal on #11. It's clear up where my upper lip meets the gums. Slightly tender. I can feel it through my lip. The size of a small pea. As a reminder, I had the r/c done 9 days ago & have been on penicillin for 7 days. I was finally getting calmed down with my decision to get dentures but this is frightening. Darn close to my sinus. If I press at the outside corner of my nostril it is tender.

My first thought is to call my Dentist 1'st thing in the morning. Half afraid I should go somewhere. Am thinking if he messed it up then is he the right person to try to fix it? What do you think? He has done a lot of canals. He pushed up pretty hard on this one to the point it made we wince. Never had that with any of my other r/c.

If this is a pus pocket how will they treat it? Penicillin obviously isn't the answer.

Hope someone can give me some info. Even bad news is better than no news right now.

Thanks, Sally

Hi nowwhat,

I've read through all of your posts and agreed with you that #11 is infected. So this last post about the development of the "fistula" (the bump) clenches our theory.... the tooth is infected. A fistula forms when the pressure from the bacteria inside of the tooth builds up to the point where it needs to find a way to drain. So the bacteria spreads from the tooth into the bone and it burrows a path through the bone to gum. Eventually the fistula will either swell up very large or it will break and bacteria will drain from it. This does not mean that the tooth is getting better, it means that the infection is severe.

The only way to cure this infection is to remove the source of the infection which is the tooth. The surgeon would then debride the bone of visible infection and necrotic tissue. Antibiotics will not cure it... they can at best only temporarily subside the symptoms.

Based on what you have written in previous posts, I would agree with you that a full upper denture may be the way to go. Any teeth you root canal are going to remain infected.... which means you will have chronic infection filtering through your system.... AND the teeth will eventually need to be removed anyway. As you can see with tooth #11... the root canal did nothing to alter the unhealthy condition of the tooth... in fact, it's gotten worse.

This infection is not something that should wait. Gather your thoughts on what you have learned here and elsewhere regarding root canaled teeth. Make a decision as to whether you want to "retain" this infected tooth or have it removed and call your dentist asap. If you decide to remove it... I would suggest you see an oral surgeon for the removal.

I'm sorry to give you such crappy news..... I hope you take care of this very soon. Let us know how you are doing.

Bryanna

Bryanna,

Thanks so much for the time you generously give to myself & so many others. Bless you!

I'll be seeing my dentist tomorrow & hopefully making arrangements with an oral surgeon.

I still have a few questions to go. I spoke to an oral surgeons secretary who said he removes the ligament "if" he decides it's necessary. Is this a red flag that he may not do what's necessary & remove the infected ones? She said he always debrides & does do bone grafting. Are there any specific questions I should ask to be able to feel confident that the surgeon I choose will do what's right, including removing the dead bone?

Is there such a thing as having an allergic reaction to denture material? I know some dentists do allergy testing on the filling materials to be used. Maybe that is why my 2 inlays (or onlay, don't know the difference) felt dry & like foreign objects?? Would hate to have a reaction to the dentures.

I suppose it's true "you get what you pay for". Might it be true that if a dentist or oral surgeon offers a "dental plan" he may do a slightly lower quality of work or use inferior materials if he knows up front that he will be getting payed less because of the "plan"? I hate being so skeptical but I have been ripped off many times. If you have reason to believe that my suspicions may be true then I may just bite the bullet & pay the full price. Yes, No??

Do you have an opinion on Aspen Dental?

One more thing. In a previous post you gave me your e-mail address & I got it but didn't record it anywhere. Now it's gone. I intended to use it with info for you. If you are so inclined I would love to have you send it to me again, if not then that's ok too. I would not abuse the privilege.

It's past my bedtime now!

Thank you. Sally

Hi Sally,

You are very welcome! Thank you for the kinds words
I will post my answers in bold ...

<<< I still have a few questions to go. I spoke to an oral surgeons secretary who said he removes the ligament "if" he decides it's necessary. Is this a red flag that he may not do what's necessary & remove the infected ones? >>>

NOT NECESSARILY A RED FLAG SO LONG AS YOU MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE SURGEON THAT YOU WANT THE LIGAMENT REMOVED. IF HE IGNORES YOUR REQUEST OR GIVES YOU A DUMB REPLY LIKE "WE'LL SEE, OR I'LL DECIDE AT THE TIME", THEN MAKE YOUR REQUEST KNOWN AGAIN UNTIL HE UNDERSTANDS THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SETTLE FOR ONLY PART OF THE JOB. DENTISTS UNDERSTAND THAT LEAVING THE LIGAMENT IS THE SAME THING AS LEAVING THE PLACENTA (AFTER BIRTH) AFTER A WOMAN GIVES BIRTH. AS A MATTER OF FACT THAT IS THE COMPARISON THEY GIVE IN DENTAL SCHOOL.

<<< She said he always debrides & does do bone grafting.>>>
THE SECRETARY MAY NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE ON ONE HAND SHE'S TELLING YOU THAT HE SOMETIMES REMOVES THE LIGAMENT AND AT THE SAME TIME SHE TELLS YOU HE ALWAYS DEBRIDES THE SOCKET. SO AGAIN TO BE CLEAR WITH THE SURGEON... TELL HIM YOU WANT THE LIGAMENT TO BE REMOVED DURING THE DEBRIDEMENT AS WELL AS ANY OTHER NECROTIC TISSUE AND BONE. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE LEFT WITH ANY RESIDUAL INFECTION.

<<< Are there any specific questions I should ask to be able to feel confident that the surgeon I choose will do what's right, including removing the dead bone?>>>

YOU CAN STATE YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT RESIDUAL INFECTION AND "ASK" HIM ABOUT REMOVING THE LIGAMENT, ETC. THEN MAKE IT CLEAR AS TO WHAT YOU WANT HIM TO DO. YOU SHOULD ALSO DISCUSS THE BONE GRAFTING. IT IS NEVER WISE TO PLACE A BONE GRAFT IN AN AREA OF BONE THAT IS INFECTED. SO DEPENDING ON HOW WELL HE WAS ABLE TO REMOVE THE DISEASED TISSUE AND BONE ALONG WITH WHAT YOUR FUTURE PLANS ARE AS FAR AS REPLACING THIS TOOTH AND THE REMAINING UPPER TEETH....... WILL DETERMINE IF HE SHOULD PLACE A GRAFT THERE OR NOT. BECAUSE YOU HAVE OTHER TEETH IN YOUR UPPER ARCH THAT ARE COMPROMISED AND/OR INFECTED... IT WOULD BE BEST TO DISCUSS THE LONG TERM APPROACH THAT YOU ARE CONSIDERING IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING REMOVING THE REST OF YOUR UPPER TEETH.

<<<Is there such a thing as having an allergic reaction to denture material...

YES, CERTAINLY. BUT EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND UNLESS YOU ARE TESTED FOR SPECIFIC MATERIALS, IT IS JUST A SHOT IN THE DARK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU WILL REACT TO THEM. DO YOU HAVE ALLERGIES OR SENSITIVITIES TO ANYTHING AT THIS TIME?

<<<I know some dentists do allergy testing on the filling materials to be used.>>>

YES, SOME DUE KINESIOLOGY (MUSCLE TESTING) OTHERS WILL ASK THE PATIENT TO HAVE A SENSITIVITY TEST DONE CALLED A CLIFFORD TEST OR A PEAK TEST. GENERALLY CONVENTIONAL DENTISTS DO NOT DELVE INTO THIS AREA AS THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT. BIOLOGICAL DENTISTS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THESE ISSUES.

<<< Maybe that is why my 2 inlays (or onlay, don't know the difference) felt dry & like foreign objects?? >>

AN INLAY IS A RESTORATION THAT LAYS WITHIN THE 4 WALLS OF THE TOOTH. AN ONLAY LAYS WITH THE WALLS BUT ALSO GOES OVER AN AREA WHERE THE WALL IS MISSING.

<<<Would hate to have a reaction to the dentures.>>>

YES, THAT WOULD NOT BE GOOD! ALSO JUST A WORD ABOUT ADHESIVES THAT ARE USED TO HOLD DENTURES IN PLACE. SOME PEOPLE NEED TO USE IT WHILE OTHERS DO NOT. HOWEVER IT IS BEST TO USE ONE THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN ANY ZINC, CHEMICALS, DYES, OR UNNATURAL INGREDIENTS AS IT ALL GETS ABSORBED INTO THE PALATE. A VERY GOOD ONE TO USE IS "SECURE". YOU MAY ONLY BE ABLE TO ORDER IT ON LINE.

<<< I suppose it's true "you get what you pay for". Might it be true that if a dentist or oral surgeon offers a "dental plan" he may do a slightly lower quality of work or use inferior materials if he knows up front that he will be getting payed less because of the "plan"?>>>

YES, THAT SAYING IS FAIRLY TRUE IN MOST PROFESSIONS.... EVEN HEALTHCARE :/ LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY.... A DENTIST WHO HAS TO CUT HIS FEES BY A LARGE MARGIN WILL WANT TO CUT BACK ON HIS CHAIR TIME SO HE MAY SKIMP ON CERTAIN THINGS. ALSO WHEN A DENTIST PARTICIPATES IN AN HMO OR A CAPITATION PLAN, THEIR PROFIT MARGIN IS DRASTICALLY REDUCED. SO IN ORDER FOR THEM TO MAKE A PROSPEROUS (GENEROUS) SALARY, THEY MAY USE LESS EXPENSIVE DENTAL MATERIALS AND DENTAL LABORATORIES FOR THEIR INSURANCE PATIENTS. I KNOW.... WHAT AN AWFUL THING TO TELL YOU... BELIEVE ME I THINK IT'S PRETTY AWFUL TOO. OF COURSE IF THEY ARE DOING THAT THEY WILL NEVER DIVULGE THAT INFORMATION TO THEIR PATIENTS... AND NEITHER WILL THEIR STAFF.

<<<I hate being so skeptical but I have been ripped off many times. If you have reason to believe that my suspicions may be true then I may just bite the bullet & pay the full price. Yes, No??>>>

YOUR SKEPTICISM IS UNFORTUNATELY WARRANTED :/ I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THAT IN ANY PROFESSION, THE TECHNICIAN IS NOT GOING TO BE GENEROUS OR GO THE DISTANCE IF THEY ARE NOT PAID TO DO SO. IT WOULD BE A RARITY. DENTISTS PARTICIPATE IN THESE INSURANCE PLANS JUST TO GET PATIENTS TO FILL THEIR SCHEDULES SO THEY CAN PAY THEIR OVER HEAD. NOT SO THEY CAN IMPROVE ON THEIR DENTAL SKILLS.

<<< Do you have an opinion on Aspen Dental?>>

I CANNOT TELL YOU WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU TO DO AS FAR AS WHO YOU HAVE AS YOUR DENTIST. I WILL TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NEVER BEEN A BIG FAN OF DENTAL OUTFITS LIKE THAT. I PERSONALLY WOULD NOT GO TO ONE. DENTISTS WHO ARE EMPLOYED BY THESE FRANCHISE OPERATIONS WHO HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF USING IT AS A STEPPING STONE TO THEIR OWN PRIVATE PRACTICE LIKE THE IDEA OF NOT HAVING THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF OWNING A PRIVATE PRACTICE. WHICH IS PERFECTLY OKAY.... BUT WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT THEY ARE MORE COMMITTED TO THEIR PAYCHECK THAN THEY ARE TO THE WELFARE OF THEIR PATIENT. ALSO THE TURN OVER IN PRACTITIONERS CAN BE CONSTANT.

<<< One more thing. In a previous post you gave me your e-mail address & I got it but didn't record it anywhere. Now it's gone. I intended to use it with info for you. If you are so inclined I would love to have you send it to me again, if not then that's ok too. I would not abuse the privilege.>>>

I WILL SEND IT TO YOU IN A PERSONAL MESSAGE. JUST LOOK FOR IT UNDER NOTIFICATIONS.

Bryanna

Bryanna, I can not tell you how comforting it is to be privy to your knowledge & words of encouragement. I would basically be lost without!

More questions:

Do "free consults" indicate a slow or needy practice?

Is it feasible-or a waste of time-to ask the oral surgeon to recommend someone who is known to make good, natural looking dentures?

I know usually the dentist recommends the oral surgeon, but my current dentist is "outta here"! I went to his office 9:30 this a.m. today hoping to get squeezed in as it's Friday & I didn't think a possible sinus infection should wait till Monday. He was quite arrogant & rude. Said "Well you're not going to see me today, I'm on my way out". After some convincing he agreed to see me. It seems he doesn't have hours on Friday & was almost out the door when I got there. At any rate, after much talk/examining he says #11 is infected but doesn't "think" it's in the sinus. I'm to see what happens by Monday. If sinus is worse will prescribe Clyndamisin (sp) & re-work the canal. (Like that's gonna happen)! He has no idea how educated I've become & how I really feel or that I've decided on dentures. He is very anti-denture & very pro r/c. I kept calm & managed to get the following out of him.

The x-rays look as if 10 thru 14 all show infection in the bone. (He only admitted it was in the bone after I specifically asked.

He cleanses his r/c's with something akin to Clorox. Is this normal?

He says Amoxicillin is the same as Penicilin. True?

Do you agree with the use of Clyndamisin for a sinus infection?

All for now, Again, thank you. Sally