Hi Canmom,

You do not need to have anything in writing pertaining to the dentist performing the proper protocol. During your consultation you were simply emphasizing the importance of being thorough and not cutting any corners. If he did anything less than what he told you that he would do, he was negligent.

I feel so bad for you... I am so sick of dentists taking advantage of people! He really has big ****s to try and put this over on you when he knew full well that you went in there as in informed patient. Not only that, he never should have rushed with you... that is totally unprofessional. Then he distracts your concern about being thorough and takes advantage of your emotional release of having this tooth out by falsely reassuring you that it looks good. What a jerk!!

I can only offer you the truth here and it is unfortunate that you have had this experience. Without any doubt the squirting of water in the socket or even irrigating the socket with water did nothing as far as a debridement is concerned. As you are aware from doing your own research, in addition to this site, it is imperative that the socket be scraped clean. The periodontal ligament will remain shredded but attached to the bone if it is not scraped out. The granuloma tissue same thing... the necrotic bone caused by the infection same thing.

Does this mean you will end up with a full blown infection in your jaw bone.... no one can predict that. It does mean that your immune system has to work very hard at dealing with the bacteria that was left behind.

A tooth can come out fairly easily under certain circumstances. However, that never negates the need to debride the bone.

There is nothing you can physically do to clean out that socket. You can do everything possible to be healthy... eat nutritiously, drink plenty of water, get adequate rest and exercise. Reduce stress! All of these things lessen the overall burden on your immune system.

I am a fan of colloidal silver but only certain specific products like this one...
http://www.purestcolloids.com/?partn...FUyk4Aodcj4AcA

Also oil of orgeano is therapeutic... but do not put it directly on the surgical wound as essential oils can burn the oral tissue when it is already inflamed. And you really do not want anything to disturb the clot or dry out the bone.

Antibiotics are not routinely prescribed for all tooth extractions. Are you running a temperature??

Bryanna

I will look for that product next time I go to the health food store, thank you for the recommendation.

The oral surgeons office called me today to see how I was feeling. I told them I was doing well but that I wanted to talk to the person who did the extraction because he was very rushed and distracted when he saw me. The receptionist told me he was busy but hopefully he would be able to call back. She apologized for him being so busy as well and said the office was in disarray due to many circumstances yesterday and the office is usually more calm. The thing is, I am a very meek person and this guy has already made me feel like I talk too much!
Yes, even after all of this I feel like I need to play nice.

When (actually if) he calls I will remind him of the protocol we went through the consultation and ask him exactly what steps he took. Bryanna, do you know how long debriding the bone usually takes? Is it something that you can feel? I am hoping he was rushing to get to the next patient that he actually did do a good job cleaning it up but because his mind was in another place he messed up his words? Ugh! He had one foot out the door from the second I got there. To their credit, the hygienist was a real sweetheart.

I guess we will see what he says.

Hi Canmom,

Are you sure this was an oral surgeon because they don't have hygienists in their office? Is this a practice with various dentists and specialties?

Surgical debridement after the extraction should take at minimum 15 minutes, sometimes longer depending on the circumstances. Just so you know, a quick scrape with the curette is not a debridement. If you are profoundly numb, you will not feel pain during the debridement but you will feel quite a bit of pressure and most often you will hear a lot of scraping noise inside of your head.

I am sure he will not admit if he wasn't thorough. If you end up with an infection he can always say something else occurred beyond his control or your body just didn't heal well. Irrelevant of what occurred, the notes in your chart will most likely reflect a thorough debridement. I've heard and seen every lie in the book... and the patient never has any clue what really happened. :/ :/ :/ Arrrrrgh!!

Bryanna

Hi Bryanna, yes it was definitely an oral surgeon. There was a woman standing beside me in scrubs the whole time, I guess she was a nurse? She passed him some tools. She was nice but left with him immediately, I had to walk myself up to the front to pay.

After you saying that I should feel scrapping in my head, pressure and that it should last around 15 minutes I am beyond angry! He tended to me for about 5 minutes! I went in, got shots of anesthetic, he left, came back, pulled the tooth, told the women the tooth needed to be flushed with water, stuck in some gauze and sent me on my way.

I am so mad right now! He assured me he was going to scrape that sucker I can't believe this.

I am going to take your advice and do everything I can to keep my body healthy. I am now going to put all my hopes into the holistic dentist in Vancouver. This process has been a nightmare but thank you for all your knowledge, I appreciate you so much.

I finally had a chance to read your whole thread. So sorry to hear everything you've gone through. I wish dentists (and doctors, for that matter) were more understanding of what it feels like to be a patient. I do hope you're feeling better from the extraction and are well on your way to complete recovery!

Unfortunately I can't use even a relatively short quote of "copywrited materiel" or link yet (being a new member) so I'll have to put it in my own words.

The danger of air seems to be related to a high speed drill and in these connections, debridement, I've only seen seen slow drills suggested.

There are knowledgeable sites that maintain that vigorous pressure on a curette can push infection into surrounding bone and consider the use of a slow drill to be safer.

Hi jeff jeff,

Actually careful, steady and deliberate pressure while using a surgical curette is necessary to remove diseased tissue that has attached itself to the bone. It is also necessary when removing mushy infected necrotic bone from the surgical site. Followed by copious amounts of saline irrigation. Slow speed drills are only used after a tooth has been removed when infection is not all too consuming in the bone and the bone just needs to be roughed up a bit to encourage a healthy blood flow. Some dentists use the slow speed drill because they are too lazy to hand debride. The heat of the waterless drill can cause permanent damage in the jaw bone so it is not intended to be used in place of hand instruments.

Hi Bryanna, hi everyone! Im really impressed by your dedication to every case, it is something admirable I write from Argentina, found the forum searching for info about root canals.

The short version of my story is that i got my upper second molar extracted today by an oral surgeon and I'm afraid he didn't made the right DEBRIDEMENT OF THE BONE neither as in Canmon case.
I decided to extract the tooth because i had had a root canal procedure one year ago, and after that i kept feeling that something wasn't right in there, so started researching and found all the scary facts from root canals.
I also had a small fistula above the tooth so I finally decided to remove it. Today the surgeon did the extraction and he divided the tooth into 3 parts for removal (i just read that that was very dangerous but i didn't know!). And after he finished he said that in fact there was infection there and he scraped the area for less than 15 seconds and proceed to stiching up the area. When i realised that he was already doing that i asked if he was sure that the cleansing of the infection was done and he said yes. I couldnt do much about it then, but afterwards i regreted not to complain

So, I have mainly 3 doubts:

1- I didnt take the prescribed amoxicilin. I had 60 drops of 10 ppm colloidal silver instead. Do you think that I'm risking too much if I dont take the antibiotics? My family says that i should not take the risk and im confused because i read that antibiotics are not effective in many of these cases.

2- Today I had a complete water fast after the extraction. Ive been researching about the power of fasting for healing our body and I wonder if it also applies to this case. What do you think about it? I want to help my body as much as i can to fight the infection and i though that fasting might help the body to focus on that.

3- I could try to go back to the surgeon during the week to ask for the proper cleansing of the bone. But would that be pointless or not? Im afraid it would be too late and also there is the fact that he already stiched the area.

Muchas muchas gracias Bryanna!

Welcome natalala.

Hi natalala,

Welcome and thank you for the kind words

I am going to re post some of your thread and answer you in bold type. It's easier to follow this way.

<<I also had a small fistula above the tooth so I finally decided to remove it.>>
THE FISTULA INDICATES THAT THE BACTERIA HAD SPREAD FROM THE TOOTH INTO THE JAWBONE. REMOVING THE SOURCE OF THE INFECTION, WHICH WAS THE TOOTH, WAS A WISE DECISION. HOWEVER, IT MAY BE IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO TAKE THE ANTIBIOTIC TO TRY TO CLEAR UP THE INFECTION IN THE BONE. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU ALSO TAKE A PROBIOTIC SUPPLEMENT EVERY DAY ... ONE HOUR BEFORE OR TWO HOURS AFTER THE FIRST AND LAST DOSAGE OF THE DAY. SO WHILE ON THE ANTIBIOTIC THAT WOULD BE A TOTAL OF 2 PROBIOTIC PILLS PER DAY. THEN STAY ON THE PROBIOTIC ONE TIME A DAY FOR AT LEAST 3 WEEKS OR LONGER. I PERSONALLY TAKE A PROBIOTIC SUPPLEMENT EVERY DAY WITHOUT FAIL AND HAVE DONE SO FOR MANY YEARS. IF YOU NEED AN EXPLANATION OF A PROBIOTIC, LET ME KNOW AND I WILL GIVE THAT TO YOU.

<<Today the surgeon did the extraction and he divided the tooth into 3 parts for removal (i just read that that was very dangerous but i didn't know!).>>

ACTUALLY, IN MANY CASES IT IS BEST TO DELIBERATELY DIVIDE A MOLAR TOOTH INTO EACH ROOT SECTION AND REMOVE EACH SECTION INDIVIDUALLY. THIS ENABLES THE DENTIST TO REMOVE THE TOOTH WITH LESS FORCE AND THERE IS LESS OVERALL TRAUMA TO THE JAWBONE. THERE IS NO REASON FOR YOU TO BE CONCERNED OR UPSET THAT HE DID THAT. IT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

<<And after he finished he said that in fact there was infection there and he scraped the area for less than 15 seconds and proceed to stiching up the area.>>

OKAY SO AS SUSPECTED WITH ALL RC TEETH, THERE IS GOING TO BE INFECTION AND HE CONFIRMED THAT THERE WAS. THE AMOUNT OF TIME HE SPENT SCRAPING IS IRRELEVANT IF HIS SCRAPING WAS THOROUGH. SOMETIMES IT ONLY TAKE 15-30 SECONDS TO REMOVE THE LIGAMENT AND NECROTIC TISSUE. WHEN THE INFECTION HAS BEEN LONG STANDING THAT IS WHEN THE SCRAPING USUALLY TAKES LONGER AS THE BACTERIA HAS SPREAD FURTHER. I WOULD NOT BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT AS IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE HE PERFORMED THE EXTRACTION VERY WELL.

<<1- I didnt take the prescribed amoxicilin. I had 60 drops of 10 ppm colloidal silver instead. Do you think that I'm risking too much if I dont take the antibiotics? My family says that i should not take the risk and im confused because i read that antibiotics are not effective in many of these cases>>

COLLOIDAL SILVER IS OKAY TO USE. BUT SINCE YOU HAD THE FISTULA, I THINK IT MAY BE BEST TO TAKE THE ANTIBIOTIC AS I MENTIONED ABOVE.

<<2- Today I had a complete water fast after the extraction. Ive been researching about the power of fasting for healing our body and I wonder if it also applies to this case. What do you think about it? I want to help my body as much as i can to fight the infection and i though that fasting might help the body to focus on that.>>

THE WATER FAST WAS A FANTASTIC IDEA PROVIDING THAT THE WATER IS PURE FILTERED WATER. I AM 100% IN FAVOR OF THIS, YES!! DRINKING PLENTY OF WATER WILL FLUSH OUT TOXINS AND BACTERIA BETTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE. HOWEVER, IT WILL NOT CURE THE BACTERIA LIVING IN THE BONE. IT IS BEST TO CONTINUE TO DRINK PLENTY OF WATER EVERY DAY, THROUGHOUT THE DAY. INCORPORATE PLENTY OF WHOLE FOODS INTO YOUR DIET LIKE VARIOUS FRUITS, VEGETABLES AND LEGUMES WHICH ARE HIGH IN NUTRIENTS AND FIBER WHICH HAVE A CLEANSING AFFECT ON THE SYSTEM. AVOID ALL REFINED SUGAR, SUGAR SUBSTITUTES, SOFT DRINKS, PRE MADE FRUIT JUICES AND PROCESSED FOODS AS ALL OF THESE ARE TOXIC TO THE IMMUNE SYSTEM AND WILL SLOW DOWN THE HEALING PROCESS.

<<3- I could try to go back to the surgeon during the week to ask for the proper cleansing of the bone. But would that be pointless or not? Im afraid it would be too late and also there is the fact that he already stiched the area.>>

I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY. FROM YOUR DESCRIPTION, I THINK HE FOLLOWED THE PROPER PROTOCOL. IF YOU DEVELOP ANY SYMPTOMS THAT YOU FEEL ARE UNUSUAL OR YOU FEEL THE SITE IS NOT HEALING WELL, THEN SEE HIM AGAIN. DID HE SCHEDULE A POST OP APPOINTMENT FOR YOU IN A WEEK OR SO?

<<Muchas muchas gracias Bryanna!>>

DE NADA!