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Old 10-06-2013, 11:19 PM #1
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Bryanna Bryanna is offline
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Parminides,

I cannot enlarge this xray but it does look like tooth #9 and 10 have problems. It looks like there is an infection in the bone around both of those teeth. Tooth #7 is not on this x-ray. The root of #9 appears to be disintegrating. Surely you have been informed about these teeth by at least one of the dentists you have seen??

Yea, that piece of wisdom tooth on the lower right is not in a good place. If you had drainage on that side then that would indicate an infection and that could be why that area is so dark on the xray. I think this needs further evaluation as well as the upper front.

Bacteria from an abscessed tooth does not have to follow any particular pathway especially if it is draining out through the gum. So that could be why the infection from #19 didn't end up in your lymph nodes under your neck on that side.

Bryanna







Quote:
Originally Posted by parminides View Post
Thank you so much for your detailed reply.

I remember that all four wisdom teeth were pulled at one time, and that the dentist had a lot of trouble with one. This was about twenty years ago, and I don't remember if he told me that he left a piece. But I haven't had any trouble from there.

I'm attaching an xray from last August of the #8 area of my mouth. See what you think about it.

I think I see what you suspect might be a crack in #19. It was an endodontist who said the tooth was cracked (after a general dentist said he suspected a crack). The endodontist did not show me on the xray. I was in pain and ready for some relief and wasn't too skeptical or interested in challenging him. If it was cracked, I have no idea how I got it.

I don't think the dark area on the right side of my mandible has gotten larger, although it's hard to say for sure since every x-ray has its own artifacts, etc. In September 2012, with the root tip still inside, the extraction site of #19 burst like a blister and drained completely. The swelling was gone and the area felt normal for the first time since the tooth had been pulled.

For a brief period it wasn't draining. During that period I noticed drainage coming from the dark area on the right side (which I've dubbed the mandibular swamp!). Apparently that drainagae source had been "drowned out" by the #19 drainage before then.

The general consensus is that the mandibular swamp is just a normal variation between my right side and left side. That seems strange to me, but that's what I've heard over and over. The way some people put it is that my nerve canal is wider on that side. It's very evident in the CT scans was well. It's like a cave on the right side.

One oral surgeon said the drainage I once perceived in that area might be discharge from a deep periodontal pocket. That same oral surgeon later said it might be a tumor or neoplasm and wanted to do a deep bone biopsy. I never let him do it because I lost confidence in that guy, who was really the only one who's seen me who ever thought that dark area might be bad.

Are you starting to understand that my mouth is a riddle wrapped in a mystery, surrounded by an enigma?

The track on the image of #19 pre-extraction (that I outlined in yellow) has bugged me to no end. Notice that there's overlapping bone to the left of it but none to the right. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Dentists have tried to explain to me that it's the angle of the camera, it's 3-D compressed to 2-D, etc. But no explanation convinces me that the overlapping bone should just abruptly stop like that.

When I was asking about the spread of infection, I just meant by the simple pathway of infection in #19 root channels spreading to mandibular canal and then traveling along the canal into the neck, just because there's a clear pathway. I've wondered why the infection didn't do that.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:22 AM #2
parminides parminides is offline
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Thanks for continuing to answer my questions. I really appreciate it.

I provided a side-by-side comparison of 3 xrays showing #8. The leftmost one was taken in May 2012, about a week after #19 had been pulled. (What in the world are those two dark, slanted lines at the top that seem to outline a small-scale version of Mt. Everest in my mouth?) The middle xray is from Aug 2012 and the last one is from Aug 2013.

After comparing them side-by-side myself for the first time this morning, I'm disappointed that there seems to be little if any bone regeneration since #8 was yanked.

I knew that the bone loss around #8 had endangered the adjacent teeth, but no one made it sound as dire as you do. The first oral surgeon thought an implant was possible if I had bone and soft tissue grafting when #8 was pulled, and possibly secondary grafting before the implant.

Another oral surgeon pulled #8 in Sep 2012. His records state that "Foundation graft placed 4-0 chromic gut." I'm almost certain that he didn't do a soft tissue graft.

What do you think needs to be done about the #8 vicinity after learning some more history and seeing a couple of more xrays?
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:04 PM #3
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Parminides,

Thanks again for posting the xrays.

The two dark "Mt Everest" lines are an artifact indicating the film may have been bent during the exposure. It is not your anatomy

Yea, I think there is something brewing in the upper front quadrant of your mouth. Tooth #9 appears to have a cavity on the distal portion of the root surface. The root of this tooth is also misshapen indicating bacteria and/or lack of vitality.

The lack of bone regeneration is caused by the chronic bacteria that is still residing in the bone not just from the previously abscessed #8 but from your periodontal disease as well. In addition to that the adjacent teeth do not appear to be healthy which is also preventing the #8 site from heal properly.

The more xrays you post here the more obvious it becomes that your periodontal disease is not under control. I don't mean to sound so "dire"... I am just telling you as I see it. I am puzzled as to why a dentist has not informed you of the things that I have.... especially since it seems that you have seen various dentists. Or have you been informed and perhaps don't believe it or it scares you or......??

I can see without a doubt that tooth #8 was infected for quite some time. Whether you had symptoms or not, a tooth does not become that abscessed unless it has been brewing for possibly a few years or more.

If I had to prioritize I would say that your biggest dental problem is your periodontal disease..... second the infected teeth that you may have which need a clear diagnosis ...and third the generalized bone loss. The xrays indicate you have deep pocketing and/or various areas of gum recession.

What are your thoughts about the periodontal disease?

Also you asked me awhile back about oil pulling....
This is an ancient therapeutic method used to keep healthy gums healthy. It can also be beneficial in those with periodontal disease but cannot take the place of proper periodontal therapy or professional cleanings.
A simple version of this is.... place one tablespoon of melted coconut oil in your mouth and move it around coating your entire mouth, teeth and gums. Do this for at least 1-2 minutes or longer. Then spit it out. You can brush afterwards.

Bryanna


Quote:
Originally Posted by parminides View Post
Thanks for continuing to answer my questions. I really appreciate it.

I provided a side-by-side comparison of 3 xrays showing #8. The leftmost one was taken in May 2012, about a week after #19 had been pulled. (What in the world are those two dark, slanted lines at the top that seem to outline a small-scale version of Mt. Everest in my mouth?) The middle xray is from Aug 2012 and the last one is from Aug 2013.

After comparing them side-by-side myself for the first time this morning, I'm disappointed that there seems to be little if any bone regeneration since #8 was yanked.

I knew that the bone loss around #8 had endangered the adjacent teeth, but no one made it sound as dire as you do. The first oral surgeon thought an implant was possible if I had bone and soft tissue grafting when #8 was pulled, and possibly secondary grafting before the implant.

Another oral surgeon pulled #8 in Sep 2012. His records state that "Foundation graft placed 4-0 chromic gut." I'm almost certain that he didn't do a soft tissue graft.

What do you think needs to be done about the #8 vicinity after learning some more history and seeing a couple of more xrays?
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