I find diabetes VERY confusing.

I've battled weight all of my life. I finally lost enough to have a body that passes for normal, while I still don't weigh normal. I can live with that.

My diet is spot on so I'm not worried. I don't cheat. I don't feel the need. I like what I eat and my sugar ranges from 85 to 119 in the a.m. And the other day it was 105 in the afternoon. So whatever I'm doing and eating (walking and sprouting) and eating my salmon), well it works for me.

But I have realized that when I went off insulin for that 6 weeks my body lost some weight. I know that insulin is stored in fat cells. I can understand that much. So when I don't take insulin, and I watch what goes into my body, my sugar went up but I did lose some weight. But I went back on Lantus and so far so good.

So here is where i get confused. I have a friend who used to weight 175. She is tall. This was 5 or so years ago. She got dizzy, they took her sugar and it was 300. So they put her on meds. She LOST a lot of weight, and now she weighs about 115. She is 53 years old by the way.

She does not diet. Her doctor is telling her to stop losing weight. She says 'I'm not trying to lose any weight". She is on 10 of Lantus, she is on Janumet, she is on other orals too. AND SHE LOSES WEIGHT?

I remember when I used to be on Metformin and I couldn't lose an ounce. I also didn't watch what I ate but that's on me.

So I got into the ACCORD program some years ago, saw a nutritionist, got off ALL oral meds, went on Lantus and it took me like 4 years to lose 50 lbs.

I never understood this. I asked my doctor 'why the heck is it so hard for me to lose the rest of my weight" and he said 'Well, you are 63 years old, you look perfectly fine, so don't worry about what the scale says "

Yeah, easy for him. He then said "You would have to go to the gym every single day to lose the rest of the weight because you are 63 years old"

I understand this. But how come my friend is losing weight and she's not trying AND HER SUGAR IS UNDER CONTROL. One morning it was even 74.

She does the fenugreek seeds like I do.

She also smokes, but we are working on that.

I know metabolism plays a part here but I was under the impression that if a person was diabetic because they weighed 175 and then they lost the weight, and their sugar stabilized, then why are they still losing weight even when they don't diet.

I looked up the symptoms of diabetes and one of them was weight loss. It explained that the body is in starvation mode and that it burns fat and muscle for energy.

So how come that didn't happen to me all these years?

And then I have a friend who weighs 300 lbs, is a diabetic for 15 or so years, and she's type 2. And she is on SO much meds I can't believe it.

She takes 80 Levimir, and 3 shots of humulog a day plus orals. And each morning when she wakes up her sugar is over 250.

When she told me this I said : 'holy cow, you are not scared about this?" and she said: "Well, nothing I can do, I'll never be 120 in the morning but I'm worried about what happens down the road."

Down the road??? Jeez.

So someone please explain:

1. How a person can be on all that meds (and I don't think she's eating tons of cake every day, she does watch), so how can she be taking 3 shots of humalog and 80 units of Levimir and oral meds AND STILL GET UP AND IT'S 281??

I don't understand how this could happen

And the other friend, why is she still losing weight and she's not dieting?

I don't understand the ups and downs of diabetes.

I guess I have to be lucky that my sugar is 85 in the morning.

I'm doing well, and that's great but I really would like to understand what is going on when other people have the same condition that I have.

If Mrs. D or someone could explain in simple terms why I don't lose weight like my friend does, and why my other friend is on SO MUCH MEDS and still can't get under 250, well I'd sure like to understand this.

Thanks much

Melody

The answer may be here:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread144410.html

It has to do with how much insulin you produce. The more insulin the more storage of food calories as fat.

Also the type of food eaten affects some people. Carbs are just poison for some and not others. That would be a genetic issue.

Comparing oneself to others, is really just going to make you feel worse IMO.

To change the way the receptors on your cells react to insulin, can reduce insulin requirements.
Mel, you should get rid of the breakfast of carbs, and do the 30 gram protein thing.
In his book, Ferris also has metabolic data showing that all calories are not equal.

at 90% consumption in testing situations per 1000 cal:
Fats eaten in tests in the 1000cal day test diets, lead to .9 lb loss per day.
Proteins eaten in same test situation, lead to .6 lbs per day loss
carbs ... .24 lb loss

He goes on to say protein really is thermogenic and consumes calories.
So he says some scientists want to reduce carb cal from 4 to 3.2/gram.

To start your day, and set up the right hormone balance for energy and not storage... you should eat 30 grams of protein within 30 minutes of getting up. If you don't, the carbs (your muffin), will be stored instead.

Counting carbs he claims is shown in studies to be useless...since all calories are not equal metabolically in the body.

And don't forget, Type II people eventually burn out their pancreas over time with insulin overproduction. If you lost cells, you will always need some supplemental insulin.

You can choose what you want for your 30grams of protein... tofu, eggs, various meats, etc. Even soy shakes, etc.
But say goodbye to the muffin!

I haven't finished the diet portion of the book yet. I expect some other tips will be in there. The book is 500+ pages, after all!

Mrs. D.

I have NEVER had a muffin in my life for breakfast. When I go to my local cafe I have an egg (or egg white), with a slice of cheese on a scooped out toasted role with a dash of margarine. I dump my sprouts (to which I add a drop of liquid smoke) and this sandwich tastes exactly like bacon and eggs. It's the least expensive thing on the menu and it fills me up because the sprouts make it a big sandwich and I sit there for an hour chatting up with the local people. This is my socialization for the day.

So do you think the one roll I have in the morning sets me up to not lose more weight than I could actually lose? It's the only refined carb I have, it's the only bread I have in the whole entire day. The rest of the day is protein and complex carbs (tomatoes, veggies)

I am understand bit by bit as to what is needed for protein. I could order 2 eggs instead of the one egg but then that's more cholesterol, right?

Same with ordering bacon.

30 grams for protein in the a.m..? I don't know how I would order this at my cafe.

Oh, maybe if I drink one of those protein shakes before I left the house?

Then I would go and get my breakfast.

Do you think that is feasible.

and the thing about the insulin.

Being that using the fenugreek seeds is REALLY lowering my blood sugar in the morning, I am going down by 1 unit at a time.

Maybe I'll get back down to 5 like I did last October (when I didn't know about fenugreek)

So let's see if I get this correct. The more diabetic meds (insulin) I take the slower I will lose weight because insulin (no matter if my body makes it, or I inject it), well it's going to be stored in my fat cells and thus I don't lose weight.

If I go down to 5 eventually, that will be a bit better? Or it doesn't matter how many units one is on?

I'm going to check out the link you provided.

I still don't get why my skinny friend who is on insulin and other meds, is continuing to lose weight. Is it the diabetes that is doing this to her? Is her body looking for energy so it's burning muscle and fat??

She is beside herself and she doesn't want to lose any more and she eats (not carbs), but she eats.

I'm now going to check out that link you gave me.

thanks much for the info.

Melody

It is only breakfast with the 30gram protein rule, so far that I know. I haven't read all the book yet.

5 eggs =30grams. Dr. Oz said forget about the cholesterol, or if you are worried do only the whites with one yolk. I am making omelets with chicken or steak with two or 3 whole eggs.

When I get the other info down to an understandable level, I'll share that.

...did you watch the videos yet?

The insulin is not stored... the glucose is. When the other cells of your body do not respond to the insulin to help glucose in (muscles, brain)... it goes to the fat cells. In other words when you eat you feed your fat and the rest of the body starves, and then you get hungry faster, and want more. The trick is to turn on the receptors in the body to accept the insulin, so glucose can get in.

She may be losing because she is going into ketosis, burning fat because she cannot get glucose in. Diabetics before being treated (type I) lose enormous amounts of weight.

She may be losing for other reasons...she may have a hidden cancer, for example.

Metformin is the only medication that encourages weight loss.
It does this by stopping the liver from making too much glucose (which is what happens in the dawn phenomenon). Much of our glucose is made in the liver if we don't eat any.

It can be very complicated, and some may be genetics. Some people are just fast burners. And others are conserving types.
So you cannot compare yourself to others, for that reason.

Watch the videos, and try the 30 gram protein breakfast. You will find you don't get hungry much during the day. I am starting to have very small lunches or dinners. Some days I only have some nuts for lunch! The change in appetite is amazing!

Hi Mrs. D.

I am going to start the 30 gram protein breakfast tomorrow. I can't have the roll right? That will screw it up??. I'll order some eggs and a slice of cheese. And my coffee. It's the socialization that is important to me. I meet up with some very nice people, and believe it or not, I share with them, what I have learned from these forums. I don't mention anyone's name, I just share what I have learned.

You'd be amazed at how many people are now using fenugreek(the diabetics that I know) and also Methyl B-12. It's amazing.

And about Metformin aiding in weight loss. I remember vividly my days long ago (even when I was dieting). Never lost a pound. Metformin made me go the bathroom every five minutes so I was glad when I started the Accord program to just have Lantus and nothing else.

Tonight we went for Japanese and guess what? I had my first beef dinner in over 15 years. It's a Bento box and they give you a little portion of beef. And some brown rice and a few other things. We celebrated Valentine's Day and I wasn't guilty because I don't eat this every day. That's why I enjoyed it.

So I'll do the 6 day being on a good eating plan and on the 7th, I might indulge myself (I don't think I'll binge because I'll get sick), but I will eat something different.

Wouldn't it be amazing if at my age, I could lose some more pounds.?

That would be so funny. And eating stuff I actually enjoy to boot.

I wonder if I ever will be able to ever get off Lantus and be entirely controlled by diet and Fenugreek. I'm not going to worry about it. I'm happy in the place I am and I enjoy getting up and seeing those numbers every day.

Way cool!!!

And I did see the videos. I click every link you include in a post. That's how I learn.

lol
melody

Thanks for this thread.

I needed this right now.

I do have to say when I first started medformin I lost weight.

I am at a stand still right now. But I have to get back to losing again.

Donna

Hi dmom:

We're in this TOGETHER.

We'll lose the weight.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

lol

All kidding aside. Losing weight is a lifetime thing. Too bad I didn't realize this years ago when I used to sit in front of the tv and just inhale dips and chips and ding dongs and dong dings, etc.

Bad Melody

But I learned!!

And I applied what I learned.

You keep trying.

You'll get there.

Melody

Hi Dmom and Mrs. D.

This morning I began doing the 30 gram thing. Made the protein shake and drank it as I was getting dressed. No inconvenience whatsoever. I have one of those small hand blenders that are battery operated.

Then I went to my local breakfast place (I have never had to order breakfast because i have eaten the same thing for over 10 years).

I walk in announcing "new breakfast, new breakfast", and everybody started laughing because they thought I was going to pull a plant out of my shopping bag and eat the plant.

After we all stopped laughing I said "No, no more roll for me, (( I had gone over to the owner and said "Can I add an egg and take away the roll and pay the same price??") NO PROBLEM.

So I ordered two eggs with a slice of cheese and they refill your coffee, and I then got my plate will eggs and cheese, dumped my sprouts, folded it over like an omelette, held it up for all the locals to see and I said out loud "See, Melody has a new breakfast"

We all laughed, Then I explained the 30 gram thing and what my goals were.

One of the guys said "You know Melody, the other day I was in this buffet place having lunch and they all these sprouts and I burst out laughing and said "oh, that's what Melody eats"

I then said "See, you remembered me because I'm memorable"

So I shall see where this 30 gram breakfast is going to take me.

Change is good (thank goodness I don't mind changing my eating habits).

Take care

Melody

Oh, Mrs. D or anbody, I have a question about the one day binge thing. The guy on the Dr. Oz show said "you can eat anything". I don't think he was referring to diabetics, right?

Maybe not referring to diabetics. But certainly helpful for insulin resistant people (like me) But for diabetics one could always just up the insulin a few units for the binge. That is what people do who shoot Humalog, etc. Brittle diabetics would need close monitoring I think. The purpose of the "binge" is to LOSE WEIGHT. People who don't need to lose weight, don't do the calorie restriction the other 6 days in the first place!
And your goal, Mel is to lose some more weight, right?

My binge is quite small....just pizza. I might have a little vanilla ice cream or a chocolate treat (2 pieces of Ghirardelli dark squares with mint). It's the pizza crust I count as the "binge" thing. The purpose of the "binge" is to stimulate thyroid hormone to wake up and increase metabolism. Really, it is hard to really binge in the true sense of binge, after eating less all week. It seems sickening in fact. It is just giving yourself a small treat so you won't miss fave things etc ( it is not eating 9000 calories or some such!). And I love pizza.
I could eat pizza every day!

I am starting to do lentils for dinner now. Cooking them up with
chicken broth and garlic. They don't bother me like red beans do, and they are very satisfying (good source of magnesium and also anti-inflammatory). I am expecting my glucose strips this week, so I will start testing to see what changes come about.
I have to test quite a bit before starting the metformin again. (this version is supposed to be better for the GI side effects...Glumetza.)

You know, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this binging thing. I saw it in my mind as me eating a table load of food and I couldn't do that in a heartbeat. Maybe 20 years ago, NO PROBLEM. But now??? after I worked so hard to get my eating in the right place, well, it's nice to know that MY VERSION of binging will be maybe a slice of pizza (or 2) for dinner on Monday evening.

I have designated Monday as binge day.

Oh my god, I haven't had pizza in 10 years. Do you know how I love pizza??

lol

Right now I'm sauteeing the bean sprouts that I sprouted. With some onions and garlic. Divine.

And some grilled chicken.

But next Monday, it will be pizza or some other decandent thing.

This is going to make my metabolism go faster, or stimulate my thyroid, or whatever?? Who knows.

And I know PLENTY of diabetics who never take their sugar but they are skinny as rails, type ones, and LOVE to eat Cannolis and everything with sugar.

One guy I know has had 5 eye operations. He's 57 or so and LOVES his food. He must weigh no more than 140. He takes 5 shots a day. I asked him "You take 5 shots a day and you don't monitor your glucose levels?" He said "I never check my sugar, I know what it is"

Well, I don't know how he knows what it is but having 5 eye operations does not bode well in my opinion. He's been doing this for 30 or so years.

He says "I LOVE to eat"

Yeah, WE ALL love to eat, but jeez, eye operations??? Five shots a day. He says "I know the carbs in my meals and I adjust my humulog accordingly".

I never knew that people did this, or could do this.

And do me a favor Mrs. D. Give me some binging things that I can do on a Monday. I gather if I take 10 or so of the Lantus on a regular basis, than Sunday night I would take 12 or so because I'm going to binge on Monday? So what can I eat besides pizza that would be considered a binge and not kill me.??

lol

Melody
P.S. Here's a good question. Do I binge in the afternoon or is it a dinner thing? Which meal is the one that people should binge? I really sound clueless, I know this. lol