Great info, Wasabi, thanks for posting.

I'd just assumed that the F directly interfered with the muscle enzymes, as well as with the hormones that facilitate anabolic processes. But your analysis of the fibro/exertional injury/fluoride connection is unequal to anything I've seen in past, and I think, deserving of merit & investigation.

Do you have any additional suggestions for "the way out" of this, other than avoidance of F & supplementation w/mag & boron? Do you have experience with animals & rhabdo -- & if so, what else is recommended.

I'm not sure how to handle the F in shower/bath water, other than brief showers, tepid water. Sponge baths with hauled R/O water? -- doesn't really appeal.

Best wishes.

I thought I would share with you a hypothesis I have concerning fibromyalgia. It goes like this:

Fluoride poisoning causes varied and widespread ischemia. Varied and widespread ischemia cause many of the symptoms of fibromyalgia.

From Answers.com:

Ischemia - A decrease in the blood supply to a bodily organ, tissue, or part caused by constriction or obstruction of the blood vessels.

What would the result of ischemia be? Basically, there would be two main effects. Certain substances would not be supplied to a certain group of cells at a rate that they require. Other substances would not be removed from a group of cells at a rate they require. The group of cells would suffocate for lack of oxygen. They would starve for lack of food supplies. They be ill-repaired for lack of proper building supplies. They would be intoxicated because of a buildup of waste products and abnormal levels of substances produced by cells in distress.

If brain cells were intoxicated, suffocating, starving, and ill-repaired - a person might very well experience fibro fog, even permanent memory loss (a side effect of statins)

If muscle cells were intoxicated, suffocating, starving, and ill-repaired they might very well be fatigued, cramped (a sign of ischemia), and painful even at rest. If forced to work hard under ischemic conditions, they would even fare worse. (heart problems, rhabdomyolysis are a side effects of statins)

If liver cells were intoxicated, suffocating, starving, and ill-repaired one might very well expect damage to the liver's ability to detoxify chemicals in the blood.


If nerve cells were intoxicated, suffocating, starving, and ill repaired they might very well function poorly and be hypersensitive to pain.

This is just a hypothesis at this point, but I hope to be able to build a case for it over time.

Is it possible that fibromyalgia would have a connection with all of us (who has been diagnosed) by the type of water we drink by the years, the air we share or area which would be semilar everywhere and combined with our work experience and also our way of living.

The only thing I know so fare, that no body knows enough about it, except that we have live with it, talk about it, prove it even if not visible to others, try to reorganize our way of life depending the severity of the pain and the worst I felt so far is to find a doctor who will listen to you and will not tell you it's all in you're head, even if you have been hospitalized for two weeks because you couldn't feel you're toes, fingers, have pain all over so bad the the muscles would only quit on you.

For I believe that the first step is to find a professional who really listen to what you have to say, and from there who knows.........

Kaki,

I'm sorry to hear that your fibromyalgia is so severe.

As I've said in earlier posts, avoiding fluoride is a good thing for fibromyalgia sufferers to do.

You said, "Is it possible that fibromyalgia would have a connection with all of us (who has been diagnosed) by the type of water we drink by the years, the air we share or area which would be semilar everywhere and combined with our work experience and also our way of living."

One thing that many of us have consumed or are consuming is aspartame. Here is a website that discusses the dangers of aspartame:

http://www.dorway.com/indexnew.htm

The other thing, which is true for me, is fibromyalgia symptoms caused by Lyme disease. If you want to know more about Lyme disease, see my thread, "Helpful Information about Lyme Disease" on the Lyme disease forum.

I pray that you will find a professional who can really help you overcome your fibromyalgia.

Presumably, the following ideas are not accepted by the government or the medical establishment, but they do make sense to me.

"If you are ill with these diseases [myalgic encephalomyelitis, fibromyalgia, multiple sclerosis or Alzheimer's], your red blood cells will not be normal doughnut-shaped blood cells capable of being compressed and squeezed through the capillaries, but will swell up like cherry-filled doughnuts which cannot be compressed. The blood cells become enlarged and distended because the only way the mycoplasma can exist is by uptaking pre-formed sterols from the host cell. One of the best sources of pre-formed sterols is cholesterol, and cholesterol is what gives your blood cells flexibility. If the cholesterol is taken out by the mycoplasma, the red blood cell swells up and doesn't go through, and the person begins to feel all the aches and pains and all the damage it causes to the brain, the heart, the stomach, the feet and the whole body because blood and oxygen are cut off."

I suspected that ischemia was behind the pain and weakness of fibromyalgia. If true, this would explain how the ischemia of fibromyalgia is caused - ischemia at the capillary level. This would also explain why even very light exercise, on a regular basis is helpful for fibromyalgia. It helps because the movement helps get swollen red blood cells through the capillaries and at least for a time, partially relieving the ischemia.

The most likely cause of many fibromyalgia symptoms is mycoplasma (artificially created or otherwise) causing ischemia possibly compounded by fluoride toxicity. This is what I now believe best explains the cause of fibromyalgia:

http://www.vaclib.org/basic/mycoplasma.htm

Here is a summary of the book, "The Brucellosis Triangle," by Donald and William Scott:

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/activism/...sis-scott.html

Hello to all,

I have read all the pages here and am impressed by the knowledge! I have had fibromyalgia since the early 1990's. Mainly it causes pain in my neck and shoulders as well as migraine-type headaches. I can actually feel small knobby nodules all around my neck and shoulders which are painful when pressed. A few things have helped and I thought I'd share these -

Magnesium injections (same thing given to women in eclampsia) to relax muscles. The doctor gave these IM. They will cause a sore spot for a week or so on your bum but this method has no gastro upset like when taking magnesium tablets. I have had pain relief for 2-3 months.

Acupuncture. Helps with pain relief for anywhere from 2 weeks to a month.

Massage. Short term - about a week or so - but sure feels good!

Stretching exercises such as mild, gentle yoga will help along with a hot shower or heat pad on the sore areas.

I am interested in the discussions about floride - isn't floride a chemical by-product? I don't have floride in my water now - is there a way to get floride out of the body safely?

My stomach has recently been kicking up a fuss because of all the pain meds I've had to take because of surgery I had last year for an unruptured brain aneurysm. So, now I'm on more chemicals (Nexium and Immodium) - but I'm going gluten-free after reading the article posted here about that.

Thanks for all the great info; I'll keep reading with interest!

Diana

Thank you so much...

I am totally interested in the relationship between these antibiotics and CFS and fibromyalgia.
I remember the first time I first felt the symptoms of fibromyalgia and I had just finished taking a series of successive antibiotics of these type in an attempt to rid myself of of a sinus infection.
The most apparent locations being between both shoulder blades on either side of my spine.
Previous to this I had been poisioned by one of my chemo therapy drugs, Vincristine. I was told that I was 1 in a 100 that had an alergic reaction to Vincristine. This happened in January of 1992.
The sinus infection occurred in 1994.
Ever since the sinus infection the fibromyalgia and then the diagnosis of CFS along with Neuro mediated hypotension has progressively gotten worse year by year.
If there is anway to rid my aching body of these types of antibiotics or is it to late ???

Here's what I can tell you:

My symptoms, which fit rather well into the cluster associated with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, appeared immediately after taking only 7 days of Ciprofloxacin, one of the more commonly prescribed flouroquinolone antibiotics. Although "a statistical correlation does not prove a causal correlation," it is rather hard to ignore the timing here. After nearly two years, my symptoms have improved, although they do seem to change and almost evolve over time. My neck and legs used to be the worst

To add insult, my PC treated me with steroids and nsaids immediately after, both of which are known to exacerbate "Flouroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome." Also, I was taking Clonopin 2mg daily, which is a benzodiazapine similar to Xanax. All benzos are contraindicated with flouroquinolones because FQs can immediately turn off (flip, actually,) the benzo (and opioid) receptors in the brain, sending you into an immediate benzo withdrawal, which is horrific by itself. I was also taking 300 mg Wellbutrin, which is also contra-indicated. My life has been quite thoroughly dessimated.

There is a ton of info and support on the web about the adverse effects of flouroquinolones, but that's about the only place you will find it. Much like FM, FTS is a "syndrome" (basically a collection of symptoms yet to be explained,) not a "disease" or "illness," and there are no tests or treatments that are scientifically significant. I have lost my career (and therefore my insurance,) my ability to participate in physical activities, some memory and cognitive function, and I deal with pain every day that even those close to me seem to doubt. Even my doc, who I used to like very much, now gives me that doubting "I think you are making this up or it is psychosomatic" look. He also seems to think that I am just looking to score some Lortab or other narcotics.

My "treatment-resistant major depression with coexisting anxiety and add" preceded any of the above by about twenty years, but the pain and severely limited lifestyle have not helped my depression...

I worked with an empathic nurse-practitioner for a while, who tried me on samples of Lyrica. It seemed to help the pain quite a bit one I got up to a pretty high dosage, but they ran out of samples and I cannot afford the almost $400 a month prescription, so I had to ramp down. Other than the Lyrica, only Lortab (hydrocodone) seems to help, and it takes about 30 mg to do the trick, which is three times the 10 mg max dosage docs can prescribe before the DEA whisks them off. This being said, please note that the high dosage I require is very unusual. Most people do not require such high doses, and indeed it can be quite dangerous. I have just ALWAYS had a high resistance to all types of pain meds and anesthetics. My dentist and oral surgeon's anesthesiologist has had to resort to adding Ketamine (not an altogether unpleasant experience..) to the normal weight-dependent dosages of typical meds that knock normal people out cold. But I digress.

I have not been diagnosed with FM because I have not seen a rheumetologist. First, I don't have the cash, and second, none of the rheumetologists around here seem to treat FM. I can only assume that this is because they doubt it's existence due to lack of definitive tests. So for now I simply endure life.

The fact that little is known and little is known to help FTS is, I believe, because A. the drug companies don't want to know, and it's such a difficult thing to pin down it's not profitable to do the research.
B. Although there are squeeky wheels on the web, the Docs don't see any significant backlash because there is no follow-up any more, and even if there was, they are too scared of malpractice claims to report the incidents, which is the only way the DEH or FDA could get data on it.
C. FQs like Ciprofloxacin are very powerful and effective broad-spectrum antibiotics that have saved countless lives. My nemesis Cipro, for instance, is the only drug known to kill Anthrax. Until something better comes long, they aren't going anywhere.

I am of the belief that trauma, either physical and/or emotional is the cause of Fibromyalgia. I think that said trauma settles into one's cellular structure. Just as an amputee feels pain in their missing limb, so do Fibro sufferers feel the pain of the trauma the have suffered prior to the onslaught of Fibromyalgia.