Hi Everyone,

We had this discussion on BrainTalk last year- the fact that the grain-feeding of chickens (and turkeys) has led to enough gluten in the flesh of poutry to cause gluten reactions. In fact, they feed a special kind of high-sodium wheat to them so that they retain water, stay nice and plump and get to market faster.

And if they feed them too much wheat, they die of fatty liver syndrome, something that has been "idiopathic" in cats and people...until now.(It is very likely that the lectins in wheat/gluten are inducing this fatty change in susceptible individuals...those with the right virus in their liver cells. In people, the main cause of fatty liver syndrome is alcohol abuse. And what are most alcoholic beverages made from? Hmmm...)

Anyway (got off topic there for a minute), what prompted this post was an Email that I just received from an Internet acquaintance with whom I have been discussing this topic. She volunteered that she had been GF for quite a while yet her tests were still coming back high. I had to drop the chicken bomb on her.

J.

PS. As I think you know, fermentation is the main way to make the lectins of gluten, dairy, and soy less harmful. Only the ruminants (cattle, sheep, goats, deer, buffalo, etc) ferment their food in their fore-stomachs. Poultry, swine, dogs, cats and people can't do this. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the mammalian meat sources in the (health food) laws handed down to Moses in the Old Testament Book of Leviticus (and repeated in Deuteronomy) had to dividde the hoof and chew their cud (ruminants).

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Dear John,

Well, I definitely checked out the roasted chicken that I purchased and yes, it does have wheat in it - darn and other bad words.

Thank you for giving me a heads up on something that I had thought was a safe product. Last year when I re-did my testing, I was surprised that my antitissue transglutamine antibodies had not gone down when I knew that I was not eating gluten - this probably explains why!

I also react to soy, so have eliminated that plus the casein and yeast. Now that I know about the chicken, I will have to see about other protein sources.

Thanks for your help and good advice. Have a great week.

M.

Just a quick note to anyone who's interested.

All over North America, there are farmers who are organically grassfeeding their stock. And people don't seem to realize that you can buy directly from the farmer.

A couple of things to note: Grain fed is not the same. Grass fed animals have higher omega 3s.

Grass fed animals also produce less e-coli in their feces.

Organic plants, after Chernobyl, did better than plants that were not. So do you want your food to be fed plants that are stronger or weaker? (That's my bottom line organic argument. )

I have sources for this stuff somewhere but it's really late. They are all on the internet though for anyone who wants to look it up.


I found a farmer who does pork and beef and does not feed wheat, corn or soy... she only feeds grasses (barley was one) but not those three. I couldn't believe it when she told me that she didn't feed them... and I didn't lead her on... she just anteed (sp?) up the info.! I love it!

John,

Can you explain how the offending peptide [a chain of 33 amino acids resistant to metabolism by the human gastrointestinal tract] makes it thru the animal's digestive system and into the meat fully intact lock, stock & barrel; which then in turn causes gluten reaction in us?

One thing that I have seen over and over again is that people say that they are GF - but upon further questioning - you find out that they are not checking products as they should. This happens by lack of knowledge, blindly following GF food lists that are outdated, not reading ingredient labels - or poor label reading skills, not calling manufacturers to verify a product's status, eating out, etc. To me, this would be a more likely scenario for her test results.

We already know that this lady was purchasing chicken that had gluten [added during processing]. My questions are...many times has she eaten that exact type of chicken & how many other items is she purchasing that contain gluten?

Your unfortunate answer is that lectins are not chains of 33 amino acids and that these tiny, antibody-sized proteins/glycoproteins are the thngs doing direct harm to individual cells. Of course, some long-chain polypeptides do make it through the intestinal wall (e.g. casomorphons and gliadomorphins), helped by the intial damage done to the intestinal wall. This is part of the whole "Trojan Horse" concept that is recognized as an aspect of the leaky gut syndrome.

So, you are certainly correct in questioning this post because I should have said that poultry is loaded with the "lectins of gluten", not simply "gluten". I'm glad you asked because that helps to stress the point.

The awareness of lectins is still pretty much in its infancy...in this country. But they have been studying and discussing them for years on the other side of the pond. I would encourage every to put "lectins" in their search and learn all that you can about them. Here is a good primer: http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html. This is what Dr. D'Adamo bases his Eating for Your Bloodtype concept on, a nice piece of the puzzle. One of the best illustration of the power of lectins is peanut allergy.

How the lectin can induce such a wide variety of changes in the cell (from death to cancer) is the interesting question to me. I believe that is where the viruses embedded in our DNA come into play. By recent estimates, up to 45% of the amino acid sequences in our double-stranded DNA are VIRAL sequences (e.g. retroviruses), some of which are active and others being thought of as extinct. Man, does that explain a lot and put a new spin on what we love to call "genetics".

Remember: One of the main functions of the virus in nature...and in our bodies...is adaptation.

(Is the villous atrophy seen in celiac disease an adaptation of a virus? Was the atrophy meant to be a temporary reaction to limit the entry of offending things but one that got completely out of control when we ignored the warning signs and continued to eat gluten anyway??? Man created wheat with this level of gluten, not "Nature".)

Kim makes an excellent point. There are ways to get poultry (and meat) that is better for us, looking for grass fed beef* and range fed poultry.

I get asked regularly whether "free range chickens" are better. The answer is that they may or may not be. It depends on what they are fed. "Free range" implies that they are not kept in cages. "Range fed" should mean that they are eating off the land like a chicken is meant to do but I seriously wonder how many chickens are not given some form of grains whether they are in a cage or not. From what I have been able to find, most chicken feed now contains gluten-grains (which also contributes to the sad fact that chicken is now the second leading source of estrogen in our diet. Ugh!)

(*Free range, grass fed buffalo is supposed to be really good stuff.)

We had organic grass fed bison burgers when we went to Quebec this last summer.

They were good but very strong in flavour.

I must say this, as we've just recently made the switch to organic (everything - as I can find it), everything organic seems 'stronger' or 'more flavourful'.

We've especially noted this in pears, raisins, grapes, clementines and meat.

Lettuce, it's not so noticeable. I don't notice it in avocados either... but then I haven't put them side by side to eat them. The other things, we've done side-by-side tasting just to see.

So, my theory is that maybe our bodies will feel full faster because they are getting what they need, better, from the organic foods.

John is right about chickens though. People's heads seem to be really stuck on feeding them grains. When I tell them that we feed our girls 'food' and no grit, they are shocked. We've had our girls for 5 years and they seem quite healthy. They give awesome eggs.

I do give them popcorn sometimes as a treat but they don't get it everyday. And I give it to them because it's a treat, not because it's their main staple. Crickets are the best treat and I get really cheap fish at the grocery store with heads and tails on and everything. They LOVE fish.

I'm still surprised at how the 'real' eating preferences of chickens surprises people. If they are a truer descendant of the dinosaur, then of course they eat meat and don't need grain... to my thinking... and apparently to theirs too because they'll leave the grain until last if given a choice. A nice live toad is good too. Cutie is an awesome hunter!

We'll see what comes of our organic journey.

I see in the quote here that wheat was listed as an ingredient in a
ROASTED chicken?

If you buy precooked meats, or whole birds, for roasting, they are often
INJECTED with fat and flavorings to make them taste better.
Some preinjected poultry have transfats in them too. This may change with the new transfat awareness and guidelines!

JMO

Hey Kim,

Which variety are they...dinochicks or chickosaurs?

Have you ever looked at the Grilled Chicken breast from McD's - yup - wheat is listed.

You're correct MrsD - not only injections - but any seasonings/flavorings/sauces, etc that maybe used. Particularly when it comes to [processed] items like that. You don't know what they've done to it until you've checked the ingredients or asked the manufacturer about it. It didn't say, but I'm guessing it came from a grocery store or something similar.

I'm still not convinced that the poor test results are solely from wheat fed chicken. I hear hoof beats - but there a few horses to pick thru before I get to the zebras.

Thanks for looking out for me MrsD! Goodness knows I need it!

In this case though, I meant omega 3.

Grain fed animals have good omega 6 levels but lousy 3 levels. If they are fed grass, the omega 3s rise up in what is thought to be a better balance with the omega 6.

And I've read many times how the nad (north american diet) is so lacking in omega 3. Well, no wonder, if we're all feeding our food grain!

Eggs are an excellent example, and seeable by the human eye. There's just more colour (more alpha and beta carotenes in them) as well as a higher omega 3 level.

I'm getting closer and closer to taking one of my eggs in, along with a store bought egg and one that I get from a local farmer that feeds only corn to his chickens. I think it will be very interesting to see the difference (even though my chickens are obviously much older than the chickens of the other eggs). As soon as I get around to it, I'll post my results.

Boy, I hope I don't have to eat mud! All this theory is based on what I've read from other places. I am looking forward to seeing the results for myself, with my own eyes.

My chickens are not necessarily a specific 'type'. They're the 'type' that happens to be easy to get in my area. The farmers won't give them a name. They look like something between a Red Star and a Road Island Red. The temperaments range between those two also, so that makes it even harder to tell.

We had a Frankenchicken, Gladys... those are the white ones that you see in commercials. There's a 'real' name for them but I forget what it is. They're man-made and have the most wonderful temperaments on the planet... but they grow too fast and too big for their hearts and their legs. So, they don't last very long. The thought of Gladys still brings tears to my eyes. At about a year old, she was the size of a turkey and died of heartfailure. When I sat in the back yard, she would always want to come and sit on my lap.

Don't get me started on my girls! Al, will tell you... I just love my 'girls'! ... Well, maybe not Blooie... she's really just the most wicked chicken on the planet. She's lucky I don't know how to kill kosher... yet...

She has a habit of sneaking up behind you and pecking you on the back of your leg. And she'll go into attack mode with no provocation... raising up her wings like a rooster and charging you. As a matter of fact, she's so aggressive that we thought she might turn out to be a rooster. But nope. She's a really great layer. She's my biggest chicken and though I don't know for sure, I think she's the one that gives me HUGE eggs.

I have to carry a stick with me when I go to feed them in the summer. In the winter she's more docile and more thankful for the food I bring. So I feel a little softer toward her during the winter... but the summer... arrrrrhh!!

See... there I go... and it's hard to stop there! They're just such fascinating creatures and they give me loads of stories to tell... and I just love to tell a good story.

That one really hit my funny bone today! Thanks for that.