[jccgf]

I stuck the Recipe Index thread and unstuck the Baking without Flour thread, which is now linked in the index.

I asked the question, but haven't received an answer, about whether a sub-forum would be possible. I'll let you know when I find out if its even possible.

Any ideas about handling other threads that might be of special interest? I used to keep an index in TGF thread, but how do we want to handle it now?

People could just make a post under the Useful Websites sticky, or under The Gluten File sticky, that gives the title/content of the thread and the link. We could also sticky another thread up top just for that purpose, although we don't want to get too carried away with sticky's.

Any preferences??? Discuss, please .

Cara

[jccgf]

The topic of copyright keeps coming up in different places with questions of what is allowable and what isn't.

So far, this is what I've gathered:

It is ok to leave links to cached pages of OBT.

However, there is some desire that this new forum should rebuild on its own feet, and not become a series of links to cached pages of another forum (which may expire, as well).

It is ok to copy/paste posts of your own from other forums.

It is not ok to copy/paste personal (dialogue, discussion) posts of others, but it is ok to leave a link to such discussions. If not in violation of copyright, the consensus seems to be that most people would not appreciate their posts being copied, and this might become an even bigger issue when/if OBT returns.

If you find posts of non-personal information (such as excerpts/links to research articles and websites) that is readily available to anyone on the net (ex., pubmed, links to articles on medical sites, etc), you may recreate or rebuild new threads with that information. People posting such information have no ownership of it; only the copyright owner can claim ownership. Still, better to recreate or rebuild a new thread than to directly copy/paste it, if it is not from one of your own posts.

It is not ok to copy/paste copyrighted material in its entirety. It is ok to offer a summary, or to qoute an introductory paragraph or other brief passages, and then the link to the article.

These are guidelines as I understand them based upon my interpretation of what I've been reading of other moderator and the administrator's posts. Since I have read a few conflicting things about some of this, do not consider it cast in stone.

The moderators would like to be consistent across the board, so this has been a subject of discussion, and we hope there will be some official clarification soon in print that we can refer to. But, for now, I think these guidelines are safe to follow.

Cara

[aklap]

I will remain relatively quiet on this subject. From my understanding - Recipes are not subject to copyright laws. The author's story or any text built around the recipe is subject. Generally giving credit to the original author of the recipe is sufficient.

Here is info I've run across. I know I have more, but I'd have to "cache hunt" for it

http://www.writersdigest.com/qadispl...ndarycategory=

Q&A: Copyrights for Cookbooks
Q. I am in the process of compiling a cookbook using recipes I have collected from health books and healthy living magazines. I have kept all the information from where each recipe came from, but what I need to know is if I need to ask permission from every cookbook and magazine or if I give them credit would that be sufficient?
--Kellie Pardo
A. The basic answer is that you do not need permission to reprint a recipe. Under copyright law, "mere listings of ingredients are not subject to copyright protection." (See Copyright Law.) However, any unique expression connected to the recipe, such as accompanying photos, anecdotes, cooking tips or descriptions, is protected and you must get permission from the copyright owner. Also be aware that recipe compilations (or cookbooks) are protected by law, even if the protection does not extend to any single recipe.
--Jane Friedman, managing editor, Writer's Digest

I found this from http://www.recipezaar.com/help/copyright.zsp

Copyright and Recipes
Is any recipe truly unique? What if my recipe originated from a cookbook or magazine? Can I still post it?


The gist on recipe copyrights: A list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. An idea, concept, system or method of doing something cannot be copyrighted either. Only the the substantially literary expression associated with a recipe can be copyrighted. To the extent there are only so many ways to say "boil water" it is not creative, or therefore protected as copyright. If the recipe directions or description are a wholesale copy of another person's creative literary expression, they are in violation of copyright. So even if the recipe originated elsewhere, even if the ingredients are still the same, if the directions and description of your posted recipe are in your own words, it is your recipe.

I think the sub-forums would be a good idea. However - it'd want to visit as site to see how the sub-forums act and work [it's been awhile since I've seen it and played with it].

[jccgf]

Al,

I sure wasn't trying to dredge up old bad feelings.

My post about copyright wasn't in reference to recipes, just general guidelines about whether it's permissible to copy other people's posts, copy over links to cached pages, etc. I guess it did follow after the post I made about keeping recipes, so I see how you might have made the leap.


As per copying recipes, the simple list of ingredients are not subject to copyright~

However, any unique expression connected to the recipe, such as accompanying photos, anecdotes, cooking tips or descriptions, is protected and you must get permission from the copyright owner.

The consensus on copying other people's posts, in general, seems to be
1) it is a violation of copyright
2) most people don't like the idea of their posts being copied elsewhere, so disregarding whether it violates copyright or not, it seems to be an invasion of privacy.

On a personal note, if someone has specifically asked you not to copy their posts, or their recipes, I believe that should be respected. I will agree to disagree there. Enough said, ok?

The sub-forum sits up there closed until you click on it, and then it drops down to the list of threads. Those threads would be the recipe cagegories, and then people could add their individual recipes as posts. I think it would work well, but we'll have to wait and see.

Cara

[aklap]

Originally Posted by jccglutenfree

I sure wasn't trying to dredge up old bad feelings.

I know you weren't ,it really is no problem on my end either, you were "takin' care of business"

My post about copyright wasn't in reference to recipes, just general guidelines about whether it's permissible to copy other people's posts, copy over links to cached pages, etc. I guess it did follow after the post I made about keeping recipes, so I see how you might have made the leap.

Sorry 'bout that. The 1s post was discussing recipe stuff, then came copyright stuff.

On a personal note, if someone has specifically asked you not to copy their posts, or their recipes, I believe that should be respected. I will agree to disagree there. Enough said, ok?

No worries there, I have no desire to do that.

The sub-forum sits up there closed until you click on it, and then it drops down to the list of threads. Those threads would be the recipe cagegories, and then people could add their individual recipes as posts. I think it would work well, but we'll have to wait and see.

I vaguely remember how it looks, but I wanted to get some "hands on" experience.

[diamondheart]

I actually was wondering about the recipe thing. I would like to post some of my favorite recipes out of some cookbooks. Can I take one or two recipes out of a cookbook and post them and reference the original author?

I think it's great that Kim has set up the recipe file with links to threads. The "Everything Free" thread is getting a bit of discussion on how the free things should be noted. I'm sure that if people want to find a recipe, they don't want to go through all that discussion. Could that discussion be on a different thread or via PMs?

Thanks, Claire

[KimS]

Oh, I forgot to mention this before:

Cara or Curious,
I know it may seem very picky... but I was wondering the TGF could be the very top sticky? You may not be able to dictate order, I don't know... But if you can, I would like to always see TGF at the very tippy top.

[valeriemates]

I always try to be very careful about copyright issues, and it makes me really glad to see that lots of other people here are being careful about it too.

(The feminist in me thinks, though, that if cooking were traditionally a *male* pursuit, then recipes would be copyrightable. In my opinion, making recipes non-copyrightable is a way of devaluing women's work. Grumble.)

-Valerie

[jccgf]

That is a very interesting thought, Valerie, about recipes and 'woman's work'! You might be right about that~

Just want to let you all know that there are no concerns at all about anything I've seen here~ just trying to give people a basis to work from. I did get an email asking some questions about what was ok to post, so I thought I'd try to put out what my understanding of the rules are.

The copyright issues being most questioned are whether we can quote an entire blurb...say a one page news short type thing... if we provide the link. Because it is for the purpose of education some have said it falls under fair use, while others say fair use does not allow you to copy anything in its entirety.

The other issue is about copying other's posts off of other forums. This is happening on another forum here, and the posts in question are not from OBT. Emails and private messages from others also may not be posted without permission.

Sometimes I think we are too worried about stepping on toes, here, lol, but I guess that is better than the reverse.

Cara

[aklap]

Originally Posted by valeriemates

(The feminist in me thinks, though, that if cooking were traditionally a *male* pursuit, then recipes would be copyrightable. In my opinion, making recipes non-copyrightable is a way of devaluing women's work. Grumble.)

Valerie,

OK let's pretend cooking is women's work...why are most of the top rated chefs men?


Do you think recipes are only used for cooking?