I don't want to give away too many details of who I am.

I used to not believe that the ins. co.s read what we wrote here, now, I personally feel that yes, they do read our stuff, but they would never be able to get it admitted into court, as it is all hearsay, and is not "secure" by any means. But again, I watch what I write, all the same.

If you are in California, you ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE AN ATTORNEY! Do you hear me yelling to everyone? I was an attorney (and judge) that had (still has) morals and values. I would not try to take advantage of ignorance. But I saw it happen. I tried and did stop it many times. I remember telling one adjuster: "If this girl were your granddaughter and had spilt the hot oil all over her arm, you would want her to be taken better care of than what has happened. So let's find a GREAT doctor in Beverly Hills who can bring her back to a more normal state, as she looks like Frankenstein and she is a teenage, she was working for minimum wage, and she deserves a fair break in life." Another one was a brain tumor case. No, we didn't cause the brain tumor, but it was a stressful job, so it is reasonable to believe we caused it to accelerate or exacerbate, so let's stop litigating and talk settlement under real figures, not a gun to her head.

In California, it IS a fight between your injury and how much the ins. co. can knock down the $ value. That $ value is what pays their salaries and gives them their profits. You cannot survive a work comp case in California without a judge.

I have a repetitive motion disease. Meaning: I got my nerve disease from my computer!!! It is highly unknown, not being researched because there's no money in it, and if you notice, Phil Gates philathropy group does not fight diseases in America that come from computers - carpal tunnel, neck, eye, cubital tunnel in the elbow, shoulder and back injuries - all from too many hours spent on the keyboard.

Now in California, the last law changes made all sorts of changes to what the judges could control and when. For instance, Utilization Reviews mean that your doctor can order treatment - even just a prescription - and the ins. co. can deny that, send you a Utilization Review from a doctor who has never met you who says "no", and then your doctor and your attorney must "object" to it, and then, if the ins. co. says "no", your attorney must bring an Expedited Hearing for a judge's decision, WITHOUT PAY. So the attorneys are not excited to do these...and the doctors get over-worked responding to them...and just when a judge says "YES" to the treatment, in 60 days the ins. co. can do it all again. So what is it worth to have "future medical treatment"? We need committed doctors, attorneys, and work comp patients who will fight.

I am sorry, but repetitive use, CTS, overuse syndromes do not come from computers, and computers do not cause nerve disorders. The injury or disease process is from the repetitive and continual use of the hands/arm/shoulder . . . doing a huge array of tasks, from trimming parts to sorting fruit, from cutting meat to moving product along a production line. Hairdressers get it from holding scissors and combs in static positions for long hours, and artists can get CTS from constantly gripping the brush!



I have CTS, stage 3 on the left and stage 2 on the right . . . neither caused by work. (Chances are my inflammation-prone body turned my art activity into CTS.) After 13 years as a claims examiner for worker's compensation in Iowa/Illinois and Washington, I have seen my share of repetitive motion, CTS, cubital tunnel/tennis elbow, and other overuse injuries. For some of us we suffer because of predisposition or because of other inflammatory processes, and for others their symptoms were linked to tasks done in the workplace. You are not entirely correct in your statement that "it is highly unknown, not being researched because there is no money in it" because all you have to do is google and you will find many scholarly articles on these types of injuries and disorders. One would not expect Bill Gates (Phil Gates is a blues musician) to throw funds at a medical issue like this, since the Gates Foundation focuses on providing vaccines for world-wide epidemic diseases and childhood diseases, and not diseases of aging or wear-and-tear. Sound like you have anger issues because of the introduction of the computer into the workplace. Don't blame Bill Gates . . . you would be better off familiarizing yourself with some prominent neurologists in the field.

IMHO, right after some kind of health care reform is realized, we need to review our industrial insurance practices. If we were looking forward to some kind of more universal health care coverage from this legislative battle, getting good treatment for work injuries would likely no longer be the challenge is it now. I recall often butting heads with my clients (the employers) over unnecessary exams, investigations and surveillance, and oppressive monitoring of claims when it was obvious that the injury was compensable. Sounds like the courts in California have allowed w/c to slip through the cracks when it comes to reality. I have no working knowledge of California w/c, but it sounds like a nightmare . . .

I don't think the poster meant from the computer itself literally, more of from the job of using computers and other desk/office work.

My carpal tunnel came from hypothyroidism.

I worked in a field with much hand/wrist action, and also with computers for as long as they were there. I work on this computer all day long.

My carpal tunnel is not severe, (I lost 80% functions shown by EMG when I was pregnant) and it did improve when I finally was diagnosed with the thyroid issue. It is not cured, but I don't consider myself suffering from it, anymore. If I overdo in the garden, or gripping things, I wear my braces, and I am fine.

Repetitive strain is often due to a systemic problem with the peripheral nerves. The strain aggravates what is happening internally and makes it worse. Finding what the metabolic thing is can be complex...but recent opinions on this aggravating syndrome are changing as to the "real" causes.

As far as the legal stuff goes, having an experienced attorney would be helpful I would imagine. I worked all thru my carpal tunnel and other PN issues, for 40+yrs.

I understand that you want to give the benefit of the doubt as to the cause, but the following statement (in bold) is simply unfounded if you do a little research:
I was simply suggesting that the energy spent in anger over the perceived cause would be better spent researching treatments and how to live with the effects of this difficult diagnosis. The suggestion that I see here in this statement is that Bill Gates is withholding research money for diseases his computers cause . . . which is ludicrous and misdirects the CTS sufferer's frustrations.

I use voice software so sometimes similar sounding names / words come out wrong.

It would be nice if Bill Gates would use some of his wealth to address the US problems with Repetitive Strain injuries as a result of high tech products.

I don't feel a need to address any other issues. People can draw their own conclusions with their own attorneys and doctors. On the TOS site, we have a LOT of doctors listed because our illness is so rare and is created or a result of overuse of the computer or other "fine-manipulation" and hand use required for working on files, at least in some cases like mine. My case is / was an immediately admitted, accepted case. I am not posting about my case in particular, but I do post for "the group" when I see a pattern of harrassment or corporate bullying.

Also, to correct one line, I meant you must get an attorney in work comp, especially in California at this time, in my opinion.

I think a key issue here is that you worked the entire time.

Many people do not have that good benefit - meaning, there are many people who work on computers all day long and get carpal tunnel to the point that they can't work at all, or handle daily activities of life such as getting dressed. Causation is always both medical and legal and determined by the facts in each separate case. Your hypothyroidism is a common factor in many nerve diseases and it is an issue that the doctors are looking at to try to find out if the nerve disease causes hypothyroidism, or, does hypothyroidism cause repetitive nerve disesases to flare up into a full-fledged disease/injury.

I do not see either of your names regularly on the TOS board, or the RSI board, so I don't know if you have sufficient symptomology in those areas to be interested in any further research.

tshadow, you did not initially state in your first post above that you had TOS. However, I know that much research has been done on TOS, but like so many of the neurological diseases and conditions represented here in this forum, TOS is highly individual in its symptoms and presentation, and difficult to both diagnose and treat. I handled my fair share of TOS claims during my years as a senior claims examiner. I recall the uphill battle just getting the doppler studies authorized. I do hope things have changed a little since I last opened a w/c claim file in a cubicle while working for a huge international insurance company . . . yeah, dream on, eh?

However, I do recall that TOS can be caused by physical abnormalities and postural deficiencies, as well as a host of accidental causes and injuries. Certainly the invention of the computer has brought about a plethora of physical challenges, from circulatory issues from sitting, to CTS and other repetitive injuries and disorders . . . but so has the television, the automobile, the video game, etc. In fact, technology has brought about a multitude of challenges for the human body that were not part of our agrarian and food-gathering history. That, coupled with a more sedentary lifestyle and dramatic changes in diet over the centuries, has led to increases in strain injuries, repetitive use syndromes and diseases that result form lack of physical engagement in our lifestyles. To pin a diagnosis and the need for more research about it on someone who developed a technology none of us could foresee changing the world as it has is simply frustration playing itself out, imho.

Newer, more ergonomically correct keyboards have been developed over the past decade, and workspaces have been ergonomically studied until the cows come home, but we will likely always have CTS and TOS and other horrible, painful, debilitating and disabling diseases with us. I think that energies are better spent learning to cope with our crappy neurological stuff, supporting research where-ever and when-ever we can, and pushing doctors to think outside the box.

Another area we need to look at, though, is getting employers to see the need for more frequent breaks and task changes, so that the repetitious physical aspects of the job are less likely to cause injury. I recall one client back in the 90's that was actually beginning to rotate workers in a plastics extrusion plant from job to job to cut down on injuries from repetitive tasks. I have also heard of large offices instituting yoga breaks and bringing in massage techs to help cut down on loss of productivity caused by such injuries. Of course, this does little for the labor force at the bottom of the ladder, where long hours, low wages and working conditions often lead to more injuries.

With my first RSI & recovery, after returning to work I pushed often for more and better job rotations in my employer's assembly area.

But even after all the cross training, so we all could be rotated equally , some just couldn't cut it when it came to speed & quality of work.

So it more or less fell to the fast and skilled workers to keep production numbers high, or we would have to make up for the slower ones later on...

I gave suggestions & input on new ergonomic equipment, efficiency techniques and some other ergonomic changes, so that was cool.

Many of the ideas were implemented , but basically the job was still gripping, twisting, reaching, cleaning small parts and precise work with high rate production speeds.
And the better & faster you were the better raises you got..
Plus I had this type A competitive thing where I liked to have the best production numbers of everyone so I kind of wore myself out.

They did bring in a PT to show us stretches to do twice a dayfor about 3 minutes at a time. But not enough to repair the damages that were already done.
They brought in a masseuse each Wed for 2 hrs but with 100+ people we only got rotated for the massage about 2x a year, 12 minutes..
Not really enough to fix anything but it was nice to get it when your turn came around.

I know nobody has the time or energy to read my life story in my posts.

But, I did ask my law firm to institute voice software before I got sick, and they said it would not conform to the billing software. Yet, the day I went out sick, the next week they instituted all 200 attorneys in two states to now use voice software or they couldn't work there.

I've had neuro TOS for 8 years. It is NOTHING like vascular TOS which is what Left sounds like she dealt with. For instance, neuro TOS (they do the dopplar test) does not show up on a dopplar test. I have a post on TOS that lists ALL of the tests that ALL but the scalene block will be "normal" in neuro TOS. What happens is that your hands move in small micro movements so much, for so long, without long enough to let the swelling go down that the swelling goes up your neck and into your brain and changes how the brain now deals with making movements and the pathways (new) that they build. It also now affects the sympathetic nerve system - that means heart, lungs, etc. Most 99% of docs do NOT understand neuro TOS. My concern is for the young people growing up who are constantly texting, gaming, using a laptop for school and a computer for work. It had NOTHING to do with having an extra rib, or physical shape. It's about TIME.

So there is so much to learn.

But in CA, what the insurance co.s are doing, is using Utilization Reviews that were supposed to be for a chance to object to a surgery, now being used for every pill or small thing the doc wants to do to try to help the worker.

My case was IMMEDIATELY admitted, accepted - there was no question when one works about 6 days a week, long hours, on a computer, that the computer (without any intervening cause such as a car accident, or childhood arm accident) and my work duties caused my injury. (Repetitive injury.)

I have been told by Australian workers that Australia's legislature decided that this type of injury will NOT be compensated by work comp - that it would BANKRUPT the system because of how many damaged workers there are. That frightens me. That's like when in the 1700's a damaged worker was wiped up, cleaned up, and given a kick in the *** out the back door...

I FIGHT FOR workers. I FIGHT for justice and truth - I am not interested in joining groups who want to "gild the lily" or make things up to make their claim bigger. I am a "just the facts" type of person. But I have to say, that I saw more fraud by the insurance companies than I did by the workers, and I was hired to identify and litigate fraudulent workers!

I believe everyone who spends their time here on the board. They can't be doing it when there's no reward...

So, when I can, I "talk" my posts to try to help in any way I can.

I do wish you better health, and the will to go on.

God bless you.