Yep, you're probably right, Judy. We have the healthiest
un-healthy Mice in the world.

On the other hand, it's a vitamin and it's cheap.

I tried some niacin yesterday (I forgot about the flush). I felt totally sick from it and I had the worst stomach cramps, just these waves of very acute pain that doubled me over until it passed. My skin was red as a tomato all over, from head to toe. Not sure why I got so sick or if I should try to find one that doesn't flush the person.

I asked over at the new Vitamin forum here if anyone has any info on B3 that they could share about doses, side fx, etc. Hopefully one of the local gurus there might be able to help us to understand more fully effects of taking B3.

I thought the B vitamins weren't very risky. Then again I never expected to be sick yesterday either. I swear it felt like I was having contractions.

You don't want Niacin. Just get the "Nicotinamide" part of B3, it's the non flush part of Niacin. That's what I learned, anyway.

Here is some niacin/nicotinamide info for you.

Basically nicotinamide has less potential for causing the dreaded flushing(which for some is very uncomfortable)

However in very high doses nicotinamide shares toxicity warnings that
are attached to niacin also.
Here is a really good monograph from Linus Pauling Institute on both:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...cin/index.html

Long term niacin/nicotinamide should be monitored every 3 to 6 months with a liver test at the doctor's.

I skimmed the research and it is unclear to me how much you would need.
The toxicity listed at Linus Pauling Institute would be a guideline for you.

While it is true that the B vitamins are water soluble, and hence to not build up in the body, Niacin has other effects at high dosage.

This article also discusses NAD which is in the research articles posted here.

You can use NAD as a supplement... The NOW company makes it:
http://www.nowfoods.com/?cat_id=2822
The link above explains it.

I am sorry, I cannot advise you about doses to use.
There is a warning in one of the articles that very high doses would be needed for humans...and that would necessitate physician supervision. (we are talking in the gram range here). 500mg/day of nicotinamide is not essentially harmful, but it may be too low for your purposes here.

It is interesting none the less. I found an article in Science News, on MS, this week, using a new drug (actually an old drug recycled for this purpose).
I'll post that later today in a new thread.

If you take any form of niacin in high doses you do need to get proper amounts of vitamin b6 too. Without enough vitamin b6 you can have some problems with brain chemistry.

Niacinamide-adenine dinucleotide (NAD) is an active enzyme that is required for the proper function of vital areas of the brain. In schizophrenia, there appears to be a failure to deliver enough NAD to the brain. Vitamin b3 is required for the transformation of tryptophan, an amino acid, into NAD. If there is a niacin deficiency, this necessary transformation of trypotphan into NAD is inhibited, and there is not only a NAD deficiency established, but there is also an overload of tryptophan in the brain’s chemistry. Tryptophan is considered to be one of the most toxic of amino acids. An overload of it in the brain can be very harmful, especially if it is not properly converted into NAD, because it can cause undesirable perceptual and mood changes. If there is a b3 deficiency, for whatever reason, the consequent NAD deficiency will lead to ever-increasing tryptophan overload uninterruptedly unless and until the proper levels of b3 are given.

Pyridoxine, or vitamin b6, is used in the treatment of cerebral allergies by many Orthomolecular physicians. There is clinical evidence that pyridoxine is involved in the tryptophan-niacin metabolism previously explained. Morever, b6 is a precursor to over 60 enzyme reactions, is necessary for the proper metabolism of all amino acids, and is required for the maintenance of a stable immunologic system.

Source: Brain Allergies: The Psychonutrient Connection by William H. Philpott, MD and Dwight K. Kalita, Ph.D.

Most cases of high doses of niacin I know about are recommending the nicotinic acid form.

I used to take 5 grams of nicotinic acid per day with other nutrients like b6 and the other b vitamins. My histamine levels are balanced now. I now take about 1,500 mg. of niacinamide and 200 mg. of nicotinic acid per day.

The flusihing is actually your mast and basophil cells filling up with histamine. I found references to low histamine levels (or histamine deficiency) associated with MS. There is a simple test to find out if your histamine levels are low or high. Just buy 50 mg. of nicotinic acid. If that dose (taken on an empty stomach) causes a flush then you have high histamine levels. But if it doesn't then you probably have low levels. (You can try testing again with a higher dose to make sure that some dose will cause a flush for you.) People with high histamine levels should never use nicotinic acid.

Now that my histamine levels are balanced I don't tolerate the flush as well as I used to. But I took (5 grams of) nicotinic acid for almost two years getting a flush every single morning with that first dose and didn't mind the flush at all. I honestly think that the flushing form is better for some reason; maybe something to do with the liver. Although liver enzymes will be slightly effected by high doses of nicotinic acid.

I will use amylase, a digestive enzyme for carbs, to counter the effect of the flush. Amylase lowers histamine levels.

Thanks Sally, MrsD and orthomolecular for some really good info! I'll go out and get the proper stuff then and combine it with what orthomolecular suggested. I don't think I have a problem with low histamine considering I only took 1/2 a tab of niacin and brightened up like a cherry all over!

Here is the journal abstract that my original post was based on:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum


J Neurosci. 2006 Sep 20;26(38):9794-804. Links
Protecting axonal degeneration by increasing nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide levels in experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis models.Kaneko S, Wang J, Kaneko M, Yiu G, Hurrell JM, Chitnis T, Khoury SJ, He Z.
Division of Neuroscience, Children's Hospital Boston, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA.

Axonal damage is a major morphological alteration in the CNS of patients with multiple sclerosis (MS) and its animal model, experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE). However, the underlying mechanism for the axonal damage associated with MS/EAE and its contribution to the clinical symptoms remain unclear. The expression of a fusion protein, named "Wallerian degeneration slow" (Wld(S)), can protect axons from degeneration, likely through a beta-nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD)-dependent mechanism. In this study, we find that, when induced with EAE, Wld(S) mice showed a modest attenuation of behavioral deficits and axon loss, suggesting that EAE-associated axon damage may occur by a mechanism similar to Wallerian degeneration. Furthermore, nicotinamide (NAm), an NAD biosynthesis precursor, profoundly prevents the degeneration of demyelinated axons and improves the behavioral deficits in EAE models. Finally, we demonstrate that delayed NAm treatment is also beneficial to EAE models, pointing to the therapeutic potential of NAm as a protective agent for EAE and perhaps MS patients.

PMID: 16988050 [PubMed - in process]

Niacinamide for years now to control nerve pain. I've not had to go to meds yet as this works for me.

Interesting that nicotinamide is related to what I've been taking.

As the B vitamins are water soluble you won't overdose.

When nerve pain flares up I take 3 500mg caps in the morning and then start dropping down as pain subsides.

Don't forget to always take B vits on a full stomach or you will get sick.

Hope this helps and your post has given me insentive to keep taking this.