Cherie, it appears you copied this material, exactly (including spelling errors), from the mult-sclerosis website. That is Paul Jones' website. Your copy DOES contain "original intact sentences" since it is copied EXACTLY, save for your inability to copy the graphs and diagrams he has.

See: http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/whatisms.html

Cherie I understand you are a professional as you made clear in your PM to me outlining your extensive background. This website (BT2) could get into big trouble and you could be fined heavily for copying & pasting someone else's material and then claiming you somehow changed it so that "few original intact sentences" remain when this is simply not true. You copied the text as it was, Paul Jones' work, then gave an inaccurate source when asked to give credit to the original author who worked hard to compile and write this information. You then claimed you somehow altered the original to a point where it was your own. It looks to me that you copied it exactly from his work and you didn't change it but tried to take the credit for his work.

I think Paul Jones deserves the credit for writing what he did and it is very important to give a link to your source and acknowledge his authorship. I don't even think you're allowed to copy such a large segment of someone else's work, but that's for you to determine.

This is just a really good example of why it is important to know your source, to provide it (even if it is just a journal publication citation), and to make sure you don't take credit for someone else's hard work. Paul Jones has given so much of himself to the MS community, he deserves recognition for his work and not someone passing it off as their own.

You have just given credit to one who I did not realize should get credit. Thank you.

wannabe, I agree with you. I just read the website you posted and the information the 1st Cherie provided on here, and it is exactly verbatum. I am a CNM originally from the UK, and trained here in the states. During my training here in the states we were told never to cite anyone's references without giving the source.

Is this commonplace? It seems to me that it would be illegal. I would suggest to anyone who is citing anyone's sources to please acknowledge the author. I think there are copyright infringement laws, aren't there?

The other question I have for the nurse Cherie is if you've only been a Nurse for 33 years, how were you able to professionally publish 38 years ago? Something isn't right here. Thanks for clarifying any possible mistakes.

Chris

I never said I was asked to publish PROFESSIONALLY 8 years ago. My publishing was done in "Young America Sings" an anthology of poetry and essays.

And, because "Understanding MS" was something I got via email and later saw in Brain Talk...not cited in either place, I did some digging and discovered that it was taken from the NMSS site (which gives permission for copying materials for educational purposes.).

I haven't yet found it on the NMSS Website but am still looking. I see that Paul Jones didn't give any source either when he quoted the material. In fact, it may be by Paul Jones, for all anyone knows.

When I saw the material here in clinical1's post, I assumed she wrote it. I think most people would assume that unless a source is given.

I don't think anyone knows "all about copyright," especially now that the Internet has created new situations in terms of copyright law.

However, there is another very good reason for always including a source for a quotation, and that is that your readers may want to look at the source, to see what else it might say, to see the context where the quotation occurs.

Sometimes it's a simple matter of noticing a misprint or something that seems to have been omitted in the quotation and wanting to check the original source....

Copying and pasting doesn't guarantee that your quoted material is going to be reproduced in its original form.

I hope I'm not just adding fuel to a fire here, but I for one do feel strongly about the need to cite sources and to make sure that somebody else's words are clearly separated from your own words.

I am not turning this into a dictatorship. I see that agate also believes that one should always cite sources when giving out factual information that clearly was written by someone other than yourself. I think it's super that you are supplying informational materials to people who may not know where to turn for proper informational sources, however, let us give credit where credit is due.

In your doing so, it implies that the material you wrote was written by you, if I am not mistaken. So, please don't acccuse me of being a moderator or preventing people from learning about their conditions. It appears that agate fully understands my stance on this matter as well. When one writes a paper, aren't we required to use footnotes and a bibliography? Why should it be any different on here. Please give credit where credit is due.

Carry on.

Chris

I would be happy to do this but cannot see a way to do so. Delete is not an option in our edit menu or User CP menu. I am sorry that my attempt to help, educate and enlighten has produced such controversy.

I PM'd wannabe to try and deal with the comments behind the scenes but apparently a Private Message does not mean "Private" here since much of what I said got placed here on the forum. I am not here as an "expert" on MS but as a person living with the illness for nearly 30 years. During that time, I've collected a lot of information. Initially some of that came from brochures and pamphlets. That information, by the guidelines stated in this thread, could not be posted here as there is not an individual author name to credit.

I think the greater evil here is not giving accurate information without giving detailed specifics of who compiled the information. The greater evil is the breaking of a confidence in private messaging and taking private information a person was given in confidence and dumping it on a public forum for all to see. Then having others jump in without knowing the facts or background behind the information that had been privately obtained and turn the whole thing into something that was never meant to be. I feel I have been treated wrongly. I will never trust wannabe again with anything personal.

Now... if anyone knows how to delete this thread so we can start over, I'm listening.

There hasn't been a way to delete an entire thread on BrainTalk without asking a moderator. In this situation at BrainTalk2, that would mean contacting the board administrator.

I have just contacted Paul Jones to ask permission to quote the page of his Website. I have assured him that he would be given credit for the material and if he wants, there would be a link to his Website as well.

There was an e-mail address for him on his Website. If I get no reply after a day or two, may I suggest that somebody post the material in a new thread, using the QUOTE tags at the top of the message window and give the URL and name of his Website.

Permission might be forthcoming at a later date, and if it is, whoever posts the thread can update it with a note that it is being quoted with permission.

I'll be happy to do this on Cherie's behalf, and I'll give Cherie full credit for the idea, which is due her as she is the one who saved the material and had the idea of posting it here.

Many people with MS are starting up their own Webpages and/or message boards. I do feel strongly that our words, which some of us find difficult to think up and type, should be recognized as ours.

Good idea Agate.

Or alternatively, Cherie could just attach the link, since links seem to be permitted here. Paul has an awesome site, with a lot of good information, so I think it is worthwhile to do that anyway.

Cherie, I understand where you are coming from with this. I too have been collecting research information for 15+ yrs. Most of what I have (except the links to BT1), are in notes that I wrote for myself. I have no idea where the information came from, or how much is "mine", but it seems a waste to not share it with others.

If you try a few of your sentences, from whatever you want to post, you can see if it will come up when you google. If it is verbatim, you will usually get a hit. The problem with my info is that it is often NOT verbatim, so although much of it is copied from somewhere, it's been somewhat re-worded to suit my particular purposes. (It's very likely that the info Paul posted is a combination of info he picked up from "somewhere"). That makes it hard to acknowledge an author sometimes.

The other issue is when we just remember a fact. I have no idea where I heard some of the points that I recall, but I'm not sure that it is against any copywrite law to "quote" a single fact anyway. Still, it lends credibility when we can do so.

I really like the idea of having this kind of thread though, and I hope we can find a way to start fresh.

Cherie

Hi Cherie,

I always read your posts on BT1 with great interest. You are such a valuable asset to our community.

Thank you for continuing to contribute so much.

MSM