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Old 05-29-2013, 11:39 AM #1
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Originally Posted by Natalie8 View Post
My neuro wants me to get off the lorazepam I've been taking for sleep every night for the past 5 years. I started before I found him, partially because of anxiety due to the diagnosis. Yikes. I was at 1.5 mg. Now I've dropped to 1 mg plus 5 mg of Ambien. Then it's on to .5 mg of lorazepam and 10 mg of Ambien. Then ultimately it's off all lorazepam.

He told me benzodiazepines are the absolute WORST for sleep because they don't allow you to go into a deep REM sleep. He said that's not a problem with Ambien and when he gets people off benzodiazepines they come back and say I'm now dreaming all the time. And his response is "well that's normal because now you are getting deep sleep!" Benzodiazepines don't contribute to healthy sleep and they can exacerbate depression and cause cog fog and memory issues apparently.

He really believes sleep is almost more important than diet or exercise. He found that what many people thought was MS fatigue was actually bad sleep. When they started getting good uninterrupted sleep the fatigue improved significantly.

So that's my #1 goal -- fix my sleep. I also got a lecture about how the sleep you get during daylight hours is not as good as the sleep you get during the time the sun is down. I was told to stop going to bed so late and getting up so late.

In general my neuro's goal is to find medication that helps with bladder problems at night to minimize interruptions, advise drinking less water before bed, and keep pets from bothering your sleep and even snoring spouses! And the bedroom is only supposed to be for sleep or sex, nothing else.

All of this is referred to as sleep hygiene.
Excellent points and be very wary of the Ambien also as it is another medication that ideally is only meant for short term use. Ask your physician about including melatonin.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:55 AM #2
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Excellent points and be very wary of the Ambien also as it is another medication that ideally is only meant for short term use. Ask your physician about including melatonin.
Hi Jules, I also take Melatonin which gave me much more restful sleep. Ultimately I'd like to get back to pre MS days when I only took prescription sleep aids on an as needed basis and stick with melatonin every night.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:08 PM #3
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Hi Jules, I also take Melatonin which gave me much more restful sleep. Ultimately I'd like to get back to pre MS days when I only took prescription sleep aids on an as needed basis and stick with melatonin every night.
Its funny because I never really though Melatonin would be so helpful but I love it! Its like bladder training, never thought it would work but I gave it a try and my life is so much better for it....wait thats another topic, lol.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:53 PM #4
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I don't need any help to sleep, most nights, anymore, but I used
to take Melatonin and loved it, years ago, until the scare, of it
not being good for you and I stopped. I was much easier led in
those days.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:58 PM #5
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Excellent points and be very wary of the Ambien also as it is another medication that ideally is only meant for short term use. Ask your physician about including melatonin.
I think I just might ask him, about that!!!
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:19 PM #6
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I think I just might ask him, about that!!!

CLIP >>>http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/list-all/Melatonin/
Main Results:

Effectiveness of Exogenous Melatonin: People with a Primary Sleep Disorder: Melatonin decreased sleep onset latency; it was decreased greatly in people with delayed sleep phase syndrome and marginally in patients with insomnia. There was no evidence that melatonin had an effect on sleep efficiency. The magnitude of the effect of melatonin on sleep onset latency in people with delayed sleep phase syndrome, but not in people suffering from insomnia, appears to be clinically significant. People with a Secondary Sleep Disorder: There was no evidence that melatonin had an effect on sleep onset latency, but it increased sleep efficiency. The magnitude of the effect of melatonin on sleep efficiency in people with secondary sleep disorders appears to be clinically insignificant. People Suffering from Sleep Restriction: There was no evidence that melatonin had an effect on sleep onset latency or sleep efficiency. Safety of Exogenous Melatonin: There was no evidence of adverse effects of melatonin with short-term use.


Main Conclusions:

Evidence suggests that melatonin is not effective in treating most primary sleep disorders with short-term use, although there is some evidence to suggest that melatonin is effective in treating delayed sleep phase syndrome with short-term use. Evidence suggests that melatonin is not effective in treating most secondary sleep disorders with short-term use. No evidence suggests that melatonin is effective in alleviating the sleep disturbance aspect of jet lag and shift-work disorder. Evidence suggests that melatonin is safe with short-term use.

>>http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/list-all/Melatonin/

It is Not Effective in treating most primary sleep disorders???

I'll stick to what WORKS for me, I appreciate your concern.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:28 PM #7
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I guess the beauty of research is there is almost always something that has been written to support most all claims. It is important to explore more than one source, imo.

Melatonin isn't a silver bullet but there is evidence that supports it as likely safe and effective for some people with disordered sleeping

http://jp.physoc.org/content/561/1/339.full
http://www.gwern.net/docs/2005-brzezinski.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...7.00613.x/full
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:22 PM #8
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Originally Posted by Jules A View Post
I guess the beauty of research is there is almost always something that has been written to support most all claims. It is important to explore more than one source, imo.

Melatonin isn't a silver bullet but there is evidence that supports it as likely safe and effective for some people with disordered sleeping

http://jp.physoc.org/content/561/1/339.full
http://www.gwern.net/docs/2005-brzezinski.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...7.00613.x/full
Yes, we call all find evidence to support or refute whatever it is that we want supported or refuted, online. I'll stick to NIH where supplements are concerned, as trusted to me, for information.

The whole discussion about Ambien, yes, it is for short term use, but if it's long term, it means that you have an underlying psychiatric condition.

Depressive Disorder and Anxiety State. That's my 'conditions', on top of MS.

So, again, appreciate your concern and appreciate that Melatonin works for you and others.

I don't abuse it, and I don't have a physical dependency on it. But I do appreciate the concern.

I'm leery of the vitamin/supplement side of life. So, to each their own, eh?
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:13 PM #9
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Yes, we call all find evidence to support or refute whatever it is that we want supported or refuted, online. I'll stick to NIH where supplements are concerned, as trusted to me, for information.

The whole discussion about Ambien, yes, it is for short term use, but if it's long term, it means that you have an underlying psychiatric condition.

Depressive Disorder and Anxiety State. That's my 'conditions', on top of MS.

So, again, appreciate your concern and appreciate that Melatonin works for you and others.

I don't abuse it, and I don't have a physical dependency on it. But I do appreciate the concern.

I'm leery of the vitamin/supplement side of life. So, to each their own, eh?
I'm not sure why you keep saying thanks for my concern. I was not concerned about you as I didn't know anything about your regimen or diagnosis' until you just posted it.

I was only adding a bit of very general information about Ambien in response to another poster who thankfully didn't seem to be the least bit offended by my reply.

For anyone else interested here is NIH's take on Ambien.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...93025.html#how
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:27 PM #10
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I'm not sure why you keep saying thanks for my concern. I was not concerned about you as I didn't know anything about your regimen or diagnosis' until you just posted it.

I was only adding a bit of very general information about Ambien in response to another poster who thankfully didn't seem to be the least bit offended by my reply.

For anyone else interested here is NIH's take on Ambien.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...93025.html#how
Very useful info on Ambien that is updated. I didn't know they now had a spray that you spray on your tongue! And sublingual tablets for middle of the night sleep problems.

What is fairly new (past year announced by FDA) that I learned from my doctor is that women metabolize Ambien more slowly. Thus I guess now they are suggesting starting with 5 mg and not 10 mg for women.

Anyhow, I think my depression has improved after lowering the dose of lorazepam. Looking forward to getting completely off benzos!
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