Oh boy, NOW I am irritated. I found out yesterday that the guy I went to see in 2003 who administered neuropsychological testing to me and interpreted the results was NOT a neuropsychologist but a psychologist. And I don't care if he had the training (I don't know he did) but just hadn't taken the "test" yet to become licensed as a neuropsychologist (which I don't know either).

When I got the test results, I called the place up and asked them if I had the complete report. Others who had the testing done had gotten raw scores and things that differed from what I received in my report. The place assured me that I had gotten the whole report. Being the suspicious person I am, I asked if I was a doctor, would you say the same thing--would this be what I would receive. They told me yes. I said, Ok, because I want to know that I have the complete record for my set of medical records.

NOW I am questioning the validity of the testing that was done in 2003. And Dr. Researcher at the large medical facility who I went to in January relied on that report to say that oh, I needed to rule out depressive aspects of my sx b/c the neuropsychologist's report indicates that I had some cognitive problems due to depression.

Sure..... now this bloomin' report is in my OLD neurologist's file--both Dr. Flip Flop and Dr. Decisive (who dx'd me in 2005), my family doc's file (in 2 towns), AND in the large medical facility's file. Since Dr. Researcher relied on it (and questioned all my other test results BUT the neuropsych's report) and Dr. Leaving for Another Facility didn't mention anything about it, I'm curious to see what Dr. Leaving's Partner at the large facility does.

SO.....

I have to get neuropsych testing done again. Dr. Researcher wanted me to get it done at the same place with the same neuropsych--for continuity. But Dr. I'm Not a Neuropsychologist isn't at the place anymore and has left the area. So I'm really not concerned with "continuity" anymore. This time, I want a REAL neuropsychologist (and yes, I'm going to ask to see credentials) to administer testing. And I want a copy of the report with raw scores and everything else that should be there.

Oh this makes me VERY angry. I'm torqued up about it.

VET, VET, VET your docs!!!! Don't accept they're something just because someone else tells you they are. LOOK at their credentials or ask them directly what their specialty is and whether or not they're credentialed for that. Grrrrr......

Hiding behind FG....dang she is not big enough to hid behind.

Well, maybe the next Dr. will be Dr. Smokin' Hot!

Icecream???

As with most anything else with this disease, our situation/testing results usually change over time anyway. It's been 5 yrs since the testing, so if I felt the assessment wasn't right, or that having a different assessment might change my treatment (prognosis, work situation, or whatever), then I would just have another assessment.

I wouldn't take it too personally that he is blaming some your sx on depression, as they seem to do this a lot with MS, and antidepressants can help with very REAL symptoms. I was tested for depression back in 2003 or so, and tested "not clinically depressed". Those results are based strictly on the answers we provide to their questions, and then we either fit or don't fit into a category. (My new neuro tests me with a 5-page "a, b, c, or d" questionairre every annual visit actually.)

I wasn't clinically depressed back then (or ever), but my original neuro still suggested the level of fatigue I had could be because of depression. Guess they don't even trust their own tests . . . He suggested Celexa (I had been using it p/t anyway, for PMS), so I thought I'd give it a try f/t. It didn't help at all with the fatigue (in fact made it worse), BUT it helped a fair bit with the spasticity pain. I have since gone off Celexa, my fatigue is better, and the LDN is keeping the spasticity mostly in check.

Aren't you still on an antidepressant? If so, why would they be blaming depression for sx?

Cherie

I was only ever on a very low dose antidepressant for pain. It wasn't therapeutic level for depression. I wasn't on it for very long--just until the pain went away.

See, it doesn't really bother me that Dr. Researcher wanted me to get retested. What does bother me is that someone who wasn't clinically competent to administer the testing not only administered it in 2003, but also interpreted it. A psychologist is not a neuropsychologist.

Dr. Researcher said that it is good to have repeat tests done, especially after 5 years. My problem isn't with that either. If that was how he felt about it, fine. That's why I've let them do repeat MRIs, CT scans, LP, bloodwork, VEP, and why I'm going to go get the neuropsych testing done all over again.

The psychologist who administered the neuropsych testing to me never gave me raw scores, never included any data like that in his report, and basically gave more of a psych profile than anything. At Dr. Researcher's request, I did see a psychologist this year. He diagnosed me with adjustment disorder--not depression. He felt Dr. Researcher's statements that my sx could be based on depression were a bunch of hooey. And Dr. Researcher's statements were based on what amounts to essentially a psych profile.

Spending a month trying to figure out the words "filing cabinet" is frustrating. Forgetting how to count months or the names of the months between December and April is scary. THAT is what was going on with me in 2003.

I've been depressed before. I never had cognitive problems. Yet there I was in 2003 not able to remember things I heard people say just moments before, extremely distractible--sometimes taking 2 hours to get reoriented on task, would say things that I didn't think I had said (and would argue that I hadn't), had major word searching issues, etc. That was not normal. And it was disturbing.

And I was disturbed by the psychologist's report when I got it as he got facts wrong, misstated what I had told him in several places, and it just didn't seem as complete as the reports of others who had had the testing done.

The psychologist who administered the neuropsych test in 2003 never gave the baseline figures for his report--no one, not one doc, could tell whether or not I differed in my test results from 2003 if they were trying to compare it to any testing that I would get done now. What I'm saying is that the 2003 testing is meaningless.

I guess what you're trying to tell me, Cherie, is that I shouldn't be angry that I spent all that time getting tested for a meaningless test result that was administered by someone not clinically competent to administer it. It's in the past, I can move forward from it, but it still makes me angry.

No, I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry. Sounds like you got a raw deal, for sure . . . especially if you had to pay for that testing (not to mention time wasted, etc.)

I am a "problem solver", and approach most things from the perspective of what can be done, how much effort and emotional energy will it take, and where to go from here? That's just my way, because I don't like to spend too much time in the past (or the future for that matter ). It's not the "best" way . . . just the way I do it . . . or I'd be crazy with resentment by now.

Cherie

The proximity to finding out has something to do with my anger reaction. It wouldn't bother me as much if I'd have know that in 2003 and was talking about it now.

I'm somewhat similar, Cherie. A problem solver. Overly analytical some say.

What significant difference would it make if a psychologist, vs psychiatrist, vs neuropsychologist does the testing?

A neurophychologist would have a better idea of how our brains might effect our behavior . . . but all three of those professionals should be able to assess us reasonably accurately.

When I found out about the MS (was pregnant, anemic, had cancer, gestational diabetes, etc.), I was an emotional wreck. Obviously my medical conditions contributed to my state of mind, which is why I chose a psychiatrist (trained "doctor"), but the bottom line was that I was suffering from grief no matter who assessed me.

What difference would/could it have made if a neuropsych had assessed you? I'm not trying to be argumentative (really!), I just don't see how the assessment was severely compromised.

Cherie

Although, my old NEURO, was a Neuropsych, I've never had, to my knowledge, any Neuropsychological testing. I like it that way and don't ever intend on having any, tyvm..

I have not been bothered by, too much, cogfog and my brain seems to be working as always.. tee hee, so, no need....and, I'm retired.

Good luck with all this, Gazzy..

Neuropsych testing is very specialized from what I understand. The interpretation of this testing is out of the scope of regular psychology and requires additional training to interpret it. A neuropsych has a lot more specialized training in neurology in order to assess how brain injury affects cognition among other things.

That is why Gazelle is frustrated. That is also why the assessment read more like a psych profile than like neuropsych test results.

My neuropsych test results touch very little on psychology and really delve into the particular cognitive problems that showed up and what areas of the brain are affected, etc.

Thanks Holly!

I did a little research myself, and it seems that there are a series of standard tests they give a person, to assess their obstacles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychology

"What will the test results show?

Once the evaluation is complete, the neuropsychologist will examine the results. The results of your tests are compared with the results of people the same age who have a similar background. If you've been tested before, the neuropsychologist will compare the new results with your results on earlier tests. The neuropsychologist then writes a report. If the results show that one area of your brain is not functioning normally, the report will say that. The report may include recommendations for further treatment, for job retraining, or for retesting at a later date."

http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/spe...opsychologists

"WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BECOME A NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST?

First and foremeost, a neuropsychologist should have a doctoral degree in clinical psychology from an accredited university or college. The neuropsychologist must have completed coursework in neuropsychology and other neurosciences such as neuroanatomy (the study of the structure of the brain and spinal cord) and neuropathology (the study of disorders of the brain and spinal cord). It is highly recommended that aspiring neuropsychologists attend a graduate school program that complies with the guidelines for neuropsychological training set forth by Division 40 (Neuropsychology) of the American Psychological Association.

It is also recommended that aspiring neuropsychologists do an internship (one year of supervised training at the end of graduate school) at a program that meets the guidelines set forth by Division 40 of the American Psychological Association and the International Neuropsychological Society. To become a neuropsychologist, a psychologist should have at least two years of supervised experience providing neuropsychological services to patients in a clinical setting. Neuropsychologists also need to be licensed psychologists in the state or province that they practice in."

http://www.medfriendly.com/neuropsychologist.html

From your original posting Gazelle, it sounds like this guy went on to be a licenced neuropsychologist eventually (cause your new neuro suggested you go back to him for continuity) . . . ? Is it possible that he was in his two years of "supervised experience" when he assessed you?

I don't know about there, but here they often video-tape and/or have round-table discussions about the testing results, when a new doctor (especially psych) is in practicum, to ensure the assessment is accurate.

Cherie