Went to Nuero appt and she told me that the pain assoc with MS can be very much like Fibromyalgia. She said the spasticity pulls and affects the tendons so you feel like you may have tendonitis all over.

She offered me vicodin, but I said I'd try stretching first.
Now my R hand is beginning to feel like I may have carpel tunnel....no reason for this to start! The bottom of my heels are sore too.

Karliann,

I have the exact pain you are describing.
It started off with Carpal Tunnel like sensations in my wrists and elbows. I have all the tests and nothing was found. I also have severly red hands and feet.

Now I ache like that all over. Neck, Knees, hands, arms - everywhere. My neuro seems to think it is a MS symptom. It will be 2 years in January since it all started. I haven't found much to help it, but I do know extreme temp changes, sitting/sleeping still too long and sleeping any position but my back makes it worse.

Some days it bad. Really bad. Those days are hard.
There are easier days too, those are the ones I live for.

Best of luck to you

Hi,

Did you get a lymes test? Have the doctor do a Western Blot. If more than three lines of the test are positive, you might consider pursuing treatment. Lymes and MS can be very similar, but a hallmark of lymes is joint pain.

Kathleen

Something occurred to me . . .

The only time I have had bad joint pain was when I started on Tetracycline, and had an allergic reaction. Apparently this is a rare reaction, but something to watch for when you start some new meds.

Cherie

When I am in extremely bad pain????? I use elastic bandages and wrap my wrists, forearms, ankles feet, etc... After a while, it seems to help, at least getting the pain down to a dull roar.
So far none of the nsaids have helped. When my back is doing it's thing only more so...a nice warm shower helps, however be sure to cool down, if not then you might get sick from being too warm or hot.
I try laying against one of our warm doggies, the support, and warmth does help.
feel better
Geri

Hi,
I am 26 years old and have just been diagnosed with MS. I do not get to see a specialist for a couple months and there is so much going on with me that I don't know what to do. I too have so much joint pain that it hurts to do daily activities. My pain is mostly in my legs (Hips, Knees, Ankles). I do every once in a while get it it my elbows. I don't know if I should call my regular Dr, or if this isn't even related to the MS. Just looking for some input....thank you so much!

Not everything is related to MS, so if you have this pain and don't know whether or not it IS related to MS then the safe bet is always to call your doctor. It would be preferable to call your neurologist (if you have one) first, but lacking a regular neurologist, call your normal doc. I know when I had problems with pain and my neurologist wasn't giving me anything for it, my family doc did and man, did it make a world of difference!

Good luck with the pain! As CayoKay put it, "It sucketh!"



P.S. And sorry to hear about your recent diagnosis. Be kind to yourself for a while. it's a bit of a mental adjustment!

Hi Elizabeth! Welcome to NeuroTalk. I'm glad you joined the group.....there's lots of very caring and supportive people here.

Thank you for your help. I have called my regular Dr. and she did give me some pain medication. Unfortunatley it makes me sleepy so I can only take it at night. I am just dealing with things day by day until I can see someone. Again, thank you all!!

In addition to the tendon insertion point pain throughout the body there is also a REAL connection to the classic osteoarthritis (OA) and rheumatoid arthritis (RA). Since MS involves inflammation process and ALL the little ""thingies" that involves, it is NOT unexpected that other INFLAMMATORY conditions can pop up their ugly heads.

My greatest benefit from my supplement program to reduce MMP-9s has been the relief from my arthritis(OA). I have not used my crutches in over 8 years and my finger joints and thumb no longer cause me SEVERE PAIN.

This abstract from Lebanon says the the MMPs eat the "cartilage, tendon, and bone". Main problem is they eat the cartilage!!!
'

MMP = Matrix MetalloProteinases

1: Front Biosci. 2006 Jan 1;11:529-43.

Matrix metalloproteinases: role in arthritis.
Burrage PS, Mix KS, Brinckerhoff CE.
Department of Biochemistry, Dartmouth Medical School, Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center, Lebanon, NH 03756, USA.

The irreversible destruction of the cartilage, tendon, and bone that comprise synovial joints is the hallmark of both rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and osteoarthritis (OA).

While cartilage is made up of proteoglycans and type II collagen, tendon and bone are composed primarily of type I collagen.

RA is an autoimmune disease afflicting numerous joints throughout the body; in contrast, OA develops in a small number of joints, usually resulting from chronic overuse or injury. In both diseases, inflammatory cytokines such as interleukin-1 beta (IL-1 beta) and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) stimulate the production of matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs), enzymes that can degrade all components of the extracellular matrix. The collagenases, MMP-1 and MMP-13, have predominant roles in RA and OA because they are rate limiting in the process of collagen degradation. MMP-1 is produced primarily by the synovial cells that line the joints, and MMP-13 is a product of the chondrocytes that reside in the cartilage. In addition to collagen, MMP-13 also degrades the proteoglycan molecule, aggrecan, giving it a dual role in matrix destruction.

Expression of other MMPs such as MMP-2, MMP-3 and MMP-9, is also elevated in arthritis and these enzymes degrade non-collagen matrix components of the joints.

Significant effort has been expended in attempts to design effective inhibitors of MMP activity and/or synthesis with the goal of curbing connective tissues destruction within the joints.

To date, however, no effective clinical inhibitors exist.

Increasing our knowledge of the crystal structures of these enzymes and of the signal transduction pathways and molecular mechanisms that control MMP gene expression may provide new opportunities for the development of therapeutics to prevent the joint destruction seen in arthritis.

PMID: 16146751

These Lebanonese fools have obviously not read my postings.

jackD

"Things" that reduce MMP-9s (AKA gelatinase B)

This list of GOOD "things" for MS should seem familiar - This is WHY???

QUERCETIN..........................REDUCES MMP-9s

VIT D3 .................................REDUCES MMP-9s

RESVERATROL (Grape Skin Extract) ...REDUCES MMP-9s
(NOT GRAPE SEED EXTRACT)

GREEN TEA EXTRACT(EGCGs)... REDUCES MMP-9s

ALPHA LIPOIC ACID (R-lipoic/ R-Dihdro-LipoicAcid) ... REDUCES MMP-9s

NAC N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine .......REDUCES MMP-9s

STATIN DRUGS (i.e Zocor) .....REDUCES MMP-9s

Omega-3s (ie Fish oil) ...........REDUCES MMP-9s

Minocycline/Doxycycline.........REDUCES MMP-9s

Curcumin.............................REDUCES MMP-9s

Pycnogenol (Pine bark extract)..REDUCES MMP-9s

Chondroitin sulfate (CS) and CS plus glucosamine sulfate (GS) ..REDUCES MMP-9s

Interferon Betas 1a/1b...........REDUCES MMP-9

(of course Steroids ....REDUCES MMP-9s)


P.S. Lowering the MMP-9s will greatly help your MS also.


1: Neuroscientist. 2002 Dec;8(6):586-95.

Matrix metalloproteinases and neuroinflammation in multiple sclerosis.

Rosenberg GA.
Department of Neurology, University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87131, USA. grosenberg@salud.unm.edu

Matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) are extracellular matrix remodeling neutral proteases that are important in normal development, angiogenesis, wound repair, and a wide range of pathological processes.

Growing evidence supports a key role of the MMPs in many neuroinflammatory conditions, including meningitis, encephalitis, brain tumors, cerebral ischemia, Guillain-Barré, and multiple sclerosis (MS).

The MMPs attack the basal lamina macromolecules that line the blood vessels, opening the blood-brain barrier (BBB).

They contribute to the remodeling of the blood vessels that causes hyalinosis and gliosis, and they attack myelin.

During the acute inflammatory phase of MS, they are involved in the injury to the blood vessels and may be important in the disruption of the myelin sheath and axons. Normally under tight regulation, excessive proteolytic activity is detected in the blood and cerebrospinal fluid in patients with acute MS. Because they are induced in immunologic and nonimmunologic forms of demyelination, they act as a final common pathway to exert a "bystander" effect.

Agents that block the action of the MMPs have been shown to reduce the damage to the BBB and lead to symptomatic improvement in several animal models of neuroinflammatory diseases, including experimental allergic encephalomyelitis. Such agents may eventually be useful in the control of excessive proteolysis that contributes to the pathology of MS and other neuroinflammatory conditions.

PMID: 12467380

WHAT IS A MMP??

ans:
Simply put MMPs are a family of about 27 (mmp-1 to MMP-27) enzymes that share a common characteristic function and structure of cutting "THINGS" up into little pieces.

Unfortunately for MS folks they (MMP-9s) like to cut a hole in our BBB Blood Brain Barrier and then enter the brain and cut our myelin into three components that the other hungry characters like to dine on.

They (MMPs) all have a zinc ion tip that allows them to break down hydrogen bonds in tissue thus allows absorption of dead or dying tissue to be reabsorbed or sent via the lymph system to others places to exit out the poop shoot.

The MMP-9s usually have an accompanying regulator protein that is suppose to make sure that it only "eat/cuts up" BAD stuff. This is called a TIMP-1. For NORMAL folks there is a one-to-one ratio of MMP-9 to TIMP-1s.

Sad to say for us MS folks that we have lots of MMP-9s that I call ROGUE MMP-9s that have no accompanying regulating timp-1. Just before and during a MS relapse the total MMP-9s level rise significently. The first thing they do is cut a BIG hole in our BBB Blood Brain Barrier!! They then enter and do the following...

They just wander around the brain cutting up anything "active" and when they run into an active transmission cable the eat through it, The outside of that cable is called myelin. (a fatty insulating substance)

The advantage of taking an Interferon Beta is that after about 4 to 6 months of starting beta treatment that the ratio of MMP-s to TIMP-1s goes back to the desirable one-to-one ration.

There are NO effective drugs to lower just MMP-9s. Some drugs were developed but they shut them all (all 27) down and killed the host.

Some antibiotics seem to lower MMP-9s quite well but taking those for long periods of time can be deadly. Likewise taking some steroids can lower the MMP-9s quite well but can be equally deadly over the long haul.