worm-can opening and hair-splitting
 

:thud: Uh-oh! I've done it, have I? :eek: I wasn't trying to, honest! :o

I'd tend to think the latter would be the case. :o

For the purpose of this thread, absolutely! (For an academic discussion, well... then, a good cans of worms is always fun! ;)) Seriously though, I really wasn't trying to cause confusion for anyone, and I apologize if I did.

My intent was merely to agree with you, Doc, about using the word "dependence" (without the psychological qualifier, either), as opposed to the word "addiction" as I'd previously posted, for Adamo's case of possibly asking a doctor about benzos. :)

waves

Having a hard time
 

I have only begun to get down to 1700mg Gabapentin this week. A doctor has given me Klonopin to help with my plan to withdraw from Neurontin. I took some last week and of course it immediately took away my somatic anxiety. When I took it I thought 'this is the way I felt normally before the gaba' — which scared the hell out of me. I can see why people get addicted to Klonopin easily and quickly. So I guess what you mean in your post is that I should take it only at least 5 days apart from the last time I have taken it? I was given 1mg pills and told to take 1-2mg for severe symptoms which sounds to me like a bit much!

The thing that is most discouraging to me is that reducing Gaba seems so difficult to me whereas you say it should not be difficult like this. I still hope trying to get off of it is the right thing to do. I would still like to get off of it before december but wonder what will happen....

Thanks for your input.

Please get medical advice regarding Klonopin
 

Hello Adamo,

Well congratulations on getting down to 1700mg of Gabapentin! Yeah!!!!! :yahoo: You're more than 1/3 of the way!

I only meant to point out that experiences with Gabapentin and with its discontinuation are extremely diverse. :o Some people (like me) have zero difficulty, some (like you) have a great deal of difficulty, and many others are somewhere in between.

Honestly? Take it as it comes. Are you still feeling as groggy with it now? You are still on a fairly high dose, but much lower than before. Have you been cutting more than 100mg/5 days? I am still holding out hope that maybe things will get better for you all around as the dosage starts to come down.

As far as dosing, I will say this, and most physicians would agree: always use the smallest effective dose. Klonopin is very potent. In your shoes, I'd try taking a half pill (0.5mg) -- that could easily do the trick. If, after an hour, you are still uncomfortable, you take the other half, and the next time around you'd know, so no need to repeat the experiment. Also, take less if your symptoms get milder. I rather doubt you'll need 2mg -- that's something most people work up to. You don't want to shoot for an "Ahhh" feeling, you really just need to feel reasonably ok (which by itself can feel pretty awesome compared to somatic anxiety).

No, I think that's too close in the case of Klonopin -- it has a longer half-life than your typical "rescue" meds like Ativan or Xanax. If I didn't want to risk dependence, I'd personally go at least 7-8 days between each dose, or do something like take it twice and then not take it for 10 consecutive days. But I feel comfortable taking shots in the near-dark regarding the effective half-life of a drug on myself. In your case, I have to advise you to consult your doctor.

Even if there is residual accumulation, it might not cause problems upon suspension, but the risk of dependence increases with:
-- dosage
-- frequency of use
-- duration of treatment

It's really best to express your concerns about dependence to your prescribing physician, and request explicit instructions from that person as far as dosage and the timing of the Klonopin in view of the fact you'll be taking it every Nth day of a gabapentin reduction. The physician can advise you better, taking into account your personal characteristics and medical status.

I am really glad you've found a doctor who's willing to help. I think you can find a way to work with the Klonopin to ease this Gapapentin Hell you're going through, and still be ok when you come out the other end. Here's wishing you well! :)

waves

As I was about to hit "Submit Reply" I noticed I crossed w/ waves' latest, but didn't have time to change anything.

IMO, any progress is better than none—or regression. 5-6-7 days... I was thinking in terms of every 7th day just to keep things on a weekly schedule; the idea being the bad day should always fall on the same day each week, but whatever works best for you—you're driving. ;)

Dosages... I'm extremely sensitive to benzos. I have a scrip for .25 mg of alprazolam (Xanax). I have to cut those in half, and 1/8 mg still knocks me out for a full day or more. Some folks need ten times that just to take the edge off. IMO, listen to your body. The minimum required to acheive the desired effect is the correct amount; titrate carefully. You may even find that only one dose will suffice to fend off the whole day. Once you know your response to a med, you'll know how much. Don't hesitate to call & discuss candidly with your doctor(s).

One of the most oft-repeated phrases here on NT is, "Everyone is different," and it works on a multitude of levels.

IMO, comparing oneself to others in this respect serves no purpose—it's not a race (December notwithstanding). What's important is that you're headed in the right direction, and making progress.

Doc

Congratulations Adamo!
 

I am not familiar with chat and postings, please forgive me for learning curve.

I am tapering gabapentin, an initial dose of 2400 and now down to 150 mg. (50 am and 100 pm)

That's great Ladybeth, and welcome to NT. Care to tell us a little about yourself (why you were/are on gabapentin, why you're here, any questions)? You can start a new thread about yourself from the forum page by clicking the New Thread button above/left of the "Sticky" threads.

Doc

The gabapentin was prescribed for pelvic pain, endometriosis. Upon surgery, and confirmation of bladder inflammation, Lyrica was prescribed and the symptoms responded best with that medication.

I have PTSD and unfortunately overtime was prescribed a benzo, my body responded with headaches and anxiety. Therefore, a new med. would be attempted, not fun. The Doc., retired. The scrip. ran out before I could be seen, by accident, I put myself into a horrible Xanex withdrawl. Simply horrid.

I was told I was on such a low dose, I should not be experiencing and symptoms. I wanted to be off the benzo stuff (I am embarrassed to say I was ignorant of the ramifications of the drug) and now knew that a taper was is order. During the taper I was switched to gabapentin. Upon my own research, I found that I was not being tapered from benzos, just prescribed another. I was a zombie. Due to my state and disdain for meds, started to taper. In the past forgetting the mid-day dose helped to begin.

Gabapentin 900 am, 300-600 mid.day, 900 p.m.
I read Heather Ashton's report and eventually asked for valium to be substituted for klonopin, as it had a longer half-life. I began the valium taper in May and switched to tapering the gabapentin and holdng on the V. Eventually, I began to taper both at the same time. About a month prior to the accidental Xanex withdrawl, my multiple chemical sensitivity (for lack of a better term and in my case, quite severe) reared it's ugly head.

just wondering...
 

Adamo,

How's it going with your taper? :)

I hope that you are doing well.

waves

I am now in deep trouble
 

I regret to say that I have had a total breakdown and was placed in a psychiatric hospital. They have had me on 2mg/day of Klonopin for more than a month and now I am completely incapacitated at home. I am suffering from severe agitation, anxiety, and depression 24/7 despite the Klonopin. I do not have any idea how I will ever get out of my troubles now or succeed in withdrawing which they all say is impossible for me. My life is destroyed and feels over permanently. It is sad and I feel hopeless. I trust any of you will forgive me for wasting your time and kind counsel but if there is anything you are willing to help me with at this tragic juncture I would be grateful. :(

Hello Adamo
 

I am sorry you are having such a hard time. There are so many other medications for depression, besides Klonopin. Please don't give up and feel that life is over. Even under terrible circumstances, there still can be a little joy in life. You found this site, which I consider one of the good things. You are not alone here, and there is comfort. Ask your doctor for more help with depression. It took me years of different combinations before I felt better. Keep in touch Adamo, I am here to listen to you any time. ginnie:grouphug: