Adamo,

I am still very much interested. Unfortunately, this past Thursday I herniated a lumbar disc, which is severely limiting my activities and cognitive functions. Just checking in the second time since then, I haven't been able to read/follow all of the new posts, but I agree that you need help beyond lay advice. I haven't, and I don't know of anyone who's been through an experience like your recent ones.

We're all in your corner here.

Doc

Hi Adamo
 

If you are healthy, being physical I should think would be wonderful for you. To me, that would be a good way to make yourself good and tired so you can sleep. I do this myself. If in a bad mood, I do yard work outside, even sitting on my butt. If anxious, paint a floor..... whatever I can do to ease being jittery.
At night going to bed with a book, real tired.... well drifting off happens for the most part easily. I think being physical is good for any of us that can get around OK.. Keep on trucking and having hope. ginnie:grouphug:

Doc,

Owwwieee!!! I am really sorry to hear this. Thank you for checking in. I wish you a rapid recovery and meantime hope that you manage to get the pain under control.

waves

more thoughts
 

Adamo,

It is good that you have a doctor. Accept his help. ;)
Since this is what the doctor suggested, and you have only been on Klonopin for a few weeks, I'd try that.

I used a benzo for about 3 weeks inpatient... was given a lot of it plus ambien plus another sleep benzo. When I came out I was told to use it as needed. I only used it maybe once a week or twice and was fine. Did not notice a darn thing. The first time I ever tapered was much later in my life, after having been on a benzo daily for 6 years.

It varies by individual but generally someone who has used it less than 6 months or so does not encounter protracted withdrawal. It is not even all that common with long-term (years of treatment) patients.

The cortisol thing applies only if you are exercising at your max aerobic rate... on the verge of anaerobic. Keep it below that. Also, you might invest in a heart rate monitor if you exercise at those levels.

The overall cortisol picture is very complicated because that hormone goes up and down with so many factors. One thing is for sure though. Cortisol goes up with stress. This situation is stressing you out. Exercise helps reduce symptoms of stress, and as such will reduce stress-related cortisol. In that sense, a moderate, sensible exercise program will help you.

As for the panic attacks, the best ticket ever to having a panic attack is fearing one. I can't say how common it is with d/t exercise during benzo discontinuation, but if you have the fear of it from the get go, do what you need to do not to be afraid... perhaps make your aerobic workouts less intensive than usual.

I think it would benefit you to stop reading horror stories. Working up fear is not useful here, it only sets you up for a negative outcome... it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy especially where anxious symptoms are concerned. Remember too, a lot of those stories are bound to be about people in very different situations.... i.e. long-term benzo patients.

Set yourself up for a positive outcome instead. Keep your focus on the desire to get your life back. If you want to research things, here is a suggestion. Research non-pharmacological ways to reduce worry and anxiety. For starters, a very simple, very effective thing to do is abdominal breathing. You have to practice it, but it mechanically forces your body to relax and the sensations will feed back to your brain.

I ran into some useful stuff of this nature a while back but I have to find it again... it will be for next time.

All the best to you. Try to take it easy... (I know it is easier said than done, but we must reach... ;)) I'll keep checking in with you. You won't be alone.

waves

Being rapidly withdrawn
 

Today my psyche said to eliminate 0.5mg from the total 1.5; that is, take only 1 mg at night by eliminating the daytime dose. I wonder if this is still to radical after 40+ days at 1.5-2mg klon?

Trying to exercise — seems to make withdrawal more excruciating!

Best wishes,
Adamo

belly breathing
 

Adamo,

If you feel uncomfortable with the rate of reduction your doctor is calling for, please, let him or her know that. You have already done a 0.5 reduction I think on your own. If you experienced significant symptoms with that, it is something you should talk to the doctor about. You should also discuss any general fears you have about going too quickly. If your doctor is unsupportive, then please find a doctor who is sensitive to your concerns and your needs.

About the exercise, if it is making you uncomfortable, it would probably be best to back off on it. That pretty much applies in general, not just to exercise. Do not force yourself to do something because it "should" be helpful, if instead, it is making things worse for you. Listen to your body, and if something isn't working for you, then take a different route.

----------------------------------------------------

Please look into anxiety management techniques. There are lots of cognitive, behavioral, and simply physical techniques which can be helpful. An easy physical one to get you started.....

* Belly breathing*
This is also called abdominal or diaphragmatic breathing.

1. Here is a video which illustrates the technique very well.

The speaker does a demonstration on both chest breathing which is what most Western society adults do, as compared to belly breathing, so you can see the difference. She also gives basic instructions and explains some of the mechanical benefits. Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_4E_QoDRSQ

2. Here is another video I found useful, which is more of a tutorial.

The speaker includes specific instructions (timing and counts) for using belly breathing for meditative/hypnotic purposes or for acute anxiety attacks. Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIQxES-DsIQ

I would also suggest, for optimal results in case of acute onset of symptoms, to do the breathing lying down as shown in the other video, or sitting crosslegged or otherwise comfortably (but not slouched). After the 5-6 repetitions of the slow count, I'd also suggest to continue just breathing and focusing on the breath for 5 to 15 minutes.

Note that the actual technique of breathing into your belly can be used at any time and in any position once you learn how to do it, and the timing will be that of your normal breathing if you are not trying to manage an acute attack. Babies breathe this way naturally all the time, and so do some adults who have not "unlearned" it.

Take care of yourself.

waves

Question about titration
 

When I cut out the first .5 mg I was left with .5 mg in the day and 1 for sleep at night. My psyche had me remove the .5 day dose so that I am to take only the 1 mg at night. Consequently I am hysterically withdrawing during the daytime and it seems almost impossible to wait until 11 pm to take the 1 mg. Finally I broke down and took .25 at 11 pm and was instantly calm. How important is it to maintain a steady amount of Klon in the bloodstream when withdrawing? It seems like when I am way past 12 hours without a dose I am nuts with withdrawal. It's a bit of a conundrum because I want to be able to maintain sleep! I feel like if there is no steady rate in the bloodstream then I will be unable to taper successfully. Would like to know what you think (off the record). She is also giving me atarax ? which she thinks will help?

Also I have been taking Elavil 100mg for three weeks and this has lifted any depression. I am convinced that now I am dealing with a Klonopin dependency that I must conquer.

I considered for a moment subscribing to an online at-home detox with some kind of "holistic" stuff but that kind of thing is just a scam right? There simply is no such thing as an easy way to withdraw from klonopin....

Incidentally, my psyche is very responsive texting and allowing me to call her at any time even just 10 minutes ago after midnight on a saturday.

I have some questions for you first, if that is ok
 

I'm willing to climb out on this limb, and just say, please don't do that. It is likely to be a scam, but even if it is not, you don't want a foot in two different boats. Please do not try to use any herbal "supplements" to help with this. Natural and herbal aids that are not considered medication still have pharmacological properties (that is how they work!) and you could easily end up in a worse situation.

------------------
Before I respond to your query about the "Klonopin levels", may I ask a couple of questions?

1. What form of Klonopin are you taking - tablets or wafers? (Do you swallow them or dissolve them in your mouth?)

2. How "instantly" is instantly? 1 minute? 5 minutes? 15 minutes? 1 hour?

3. How calm is calm? Did you feel completely fine? If not, which symptoms went away, and which were left?

This is good. Please let her know, in no uncertain terms, if you want to approach the taper more slowly.

Btw, the Atarax should, indeed, help.

I'll check back in a few hours, assuming I don't have another migraine attack in which case I'll check back as soon as able.

waves

Hi Adamo
 

Waves is 100% correct. No scams. There isn't really an easy way to do it. Just keep in mind, there will be an end to all the side effects, and it will be over with. I got off Morphine after 10 years Adamo. It was hell, but I am good now. It took me 6 months of being really really uncomfortable. If I can do it, so can you. I am here anytime to listen. ginnie:grouphug:

one more question - I am confused on this point...
 

I was just reading your post again, and got a little bit confused about this:

I am reading that you take your evening dose, currently 1 mg, at 11 pm.

Then, in the second part, it sounds like you are saying you broke down and took an extra 25 mg at 11 pm, along with your usual dose, for a total of 1.25 mg, all taken at 11pm? Is that correct?

If not, what time did you take the 0.25?

Sorry for adding to the questions. The answers to all these things should help me to offer additional thoughts as might apply to you.

I am sorry that all this is happening to you. I do realize it is very hard. Keep reminding yourself that you will get through it, and be ok. :hug:

waves