nice editing job nothing was lost of this thread that keeps it going something like this could go on for months its a very diverse topic with all kinds of points on both sides it's like everything else in life accept someone else's opionon as being different from yours and try to get your point across without attacking others its, life get over it

Just to set the record straight, and because it got lost in all the blather...

This was my original comment on the subject...

My comment was not directed at a person. It was directed at a comment by another poster who seemed to indicate that those of us who support this kind of research are supporting "the devil's work." I mentioned no one by name, I attacked no one... I stated an opinion with the clear preface that it might not be a popular one.

Then I got called an "atheist" -- and frankly, that got my hackles up. I responded to that slur, and I stand by my response.

But you're right that this issue is one in which we can go round and round and round and never change anyone's mind. I discuss the issue in my podcast today.

Like I said, I do believe that in 2009 there will be a more favorable climate for federal funding. And if there IS a cure to be found in this research, I would not hold it against any of its current opponents if they decide to take part in the cure.

Now... on to a more important issue... howcum nobody took up my offer for steaks and corn? They were DELICIOUS!!!

we're at the "agree to disagree" stage with this thread.
Everyone feels passionate about the subject. I think that even if you support it, everyone agrees that it needs close control.

ALso the medium does not lend itself to this discussion

So what do you say to a big group cyber-hug and moving on???


Charlie

because you did not give an address!!
after hitting 10 backyard BBQ's, I was quite full anyway!!!

You are not oriental are you?? this lady took exception to my eating the steak off her grill.Ever try to carry a hot steak with an irate oriental lady chasing you with a BBQ fork???.....probably not......

Chas

A little finesse is all it takes, Chas...

All ya gotta do is tell her that you saw a fly land on it, and you're just taking it off the grill before someone eats it and gets a disease. It's a public service. She'll THANK you!

I agree that it's tough to talk about Christianity on the forums. But one of the main reasons for this is resistance to being told what to do or how to live our lives.

I think this discussion should be allowed to continue, because that is the only way things get resolved. I have faith that we are ready for this.

I'm going to argue against one of the main reasons used for using ESCR, in spite of its obvious logic. Using the embryos because they are going to be thrown away anyway. A simple cliche will do here - "two wrongs don't make a right."

That argument is no longer cutting it with me, because it doesn't resolve anything ethically. Therefore, I am one who still struggles with ESCR and having Christian beliefs. I said in an earlier post, I have resolved to keep myself and others as informed as possible, but you won't see me waving a demonstration sign over ESCR - it's my vote that will count.

Also, it's important to know that this research is already going on, and it is only a matter of political change to see this become federally funded. Believe it or not, John Stewart made one of the most logical statements yet on this issue when he said, "I wonder how many embryos were destroyed trying to learn in vitro fertilization?"

Again, that doesn't resolve the issue, it only goes back to 'two wrongs don't make a right.' in many people's view.

There is no logical explanation. You either believe that life doesn't begin without a womb or you don't. It's not an abortion issue.....it's not an issue of throwing things away, it's a matter of when do you think life begins? This is the heart of the struggle.

People against ESCR are probably right about destroying life to save a life. That is a fact that ESCR supporters are going to have to accept. This is probably what is happening [I can't speak for sure about things unknown]

People against ESCR for religious beliefs should not be censored. However, preaching and condemning people is exactly what causes this censorship and disdain for it.

It's not a Christian's job to judge. [clearly stated in the Bible] It is the responsibility of all of us to be informed and to vote. It's not a Christian or any other person of faith's fault if this law passes against their will. It could possibiy be your fault if you don't vote.

Christianity has taken a beating and is oh so delicate to talk about. But I think that we must call a spade a spade. Christians believe that destroying an embryo is destroying a life. ESCR supporters need to stop dodging that issue by saying that they are going to be destroyed anyway. It doesn't address the heart of the issue.

Attempting to be fair and balanced.

paula

I do believe that if the embryos are doomed for destruction, the argument to let the parents donate them for research is a valid one. I truly believe this is akin to organ donation: let the parents sign donation forms to use the organs (or cells) to help others live. If I die suddenly, and there are any usable organs in my body, I want them donated to help someone else.

For people (religious or not) who are against embryonic stem cell research, where are the letters to the editor or protests about excess embryos being created for in-vitro fertilization? Some countries outside the US limit the number of embryos created during the in-vitro process (can’t remember which ones). Why not contact the president and members of congress about this important issue? In my opinion, being against the use of excess embryos for research and yet being in favor of the creation of excess embryos (or failing to protest the creation of excess embryos...) during the in-vitro fertilization process is hypocritical at best.

No one knows if embryonic stem cells will bring about breakthroughs in new treatments. I only ask that it be one avenue for research.

Respectfully,

Speaking of breakthroughs in new treatments..ESCR will I believe open the door for many new discoveries, and hopefully those discoveries will lead to treatments without the cloud of controversy surrounding them..As we know breakthroughs in alternative sources of stem cells have already been found in umbilical cord fluids and baby teeth..I believe that ESCR is but the tip of the iceberg

I agree with you!!

Plus initially there were protests & controversy & complaints about every new breakthrough in science. ...

- Small pox vaccinations
- organ donation
- heart transplants
... etc etc

something to keep in mind

Also, in this struggle, and that is what it is, not a fight, appears the inevitable "if the building was on fire which would you save - the embryo or the guy in the wheelchair?"

Of course you would save the guy in the wheelchair (I hope lol), but is it really the same argument as ESCR? Some would say yes. But once again, it is dodging the issue. You have to make a choice in a fire.

Science will find the answer to the question of how we are built by someone or something a whole lot smarter than we are. Right now we are fighting over the unknown.

Having in vitro fertilization and not ESCR is a mess to explain. There is no logical explanation.

paula